Author Topic: German translation issues version 1.7.x  (Read 32112 times)

nica

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German translation issues version 1.7.x
« on: December 04, 2016, 08:45:17 pm »
Hi, since translations threads are closed, I'd like to give a feedback here in this thread.

Kostya wrote before, that translations were built from scratch up, also german. In result, on the one hand we see a better grammar now, thank you. On the other hand, there is some terminology, which is not common in german software language, and there is at least one bigger issue. Let me explanate two points:

1. The term "folder" is now translated everywhere as "Verzeichnis". This is not an appropriate way to do.

Ususally in software translations "folder" is translated (as in 1.6.x) as "Ordner". This expression is also used in Windows and well known by all people using german language.

The term "directory" (known from DOS, Linux etc.) usually is translated as "Verzeichnis". There are a lot of people, who don't know, what "Verzeichnis" means in technical way of meaning.

Furthermore:
- "Inbox" is translated as "E-Mail-Eingang". Usual translation is "Posteingang" known and used by other software
- The previous "Smart Box" is now translated as "Smart-Verzeichnis". Funny.

2. Wrong translation string: In account settings you will find in 1.7.x the item "Remove deleted messages" with explanation:

"Remove local copies of messages no longer on the server" (screenshot 1: original english)

This means that deleting a message on server will delete the local copy.

This is translated to a strange thing, almost the contrary:
"Lokale Nachrichten-Kopien nicht mehr vom Server entfernen" (see screenshot 2: wrong german 1.7.x)

This means in english:  "Do not remove local copies of messages from the server anymore"

In version 1.6.x it was translated in an appropriate way:
"Vom Server gelöschte Nachrichten auch lokal entfernen" (see screenshot 3: correct german 1.6.x)

I'm afraid that users will be irritated by new translations.

mikeone

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Re: German translation issues version 1.7.x
« Reply #1 on: December 04, 2016, 09:47:39 pm »
#1
I totally agree with @nica's comments. His objections are entirely reasoning:

• The term "Folder" should be translated as "Ordner" (not: "Verzeichnis")

• The term" Inbox" should be translated as "Posteingang" (not: "E-Mail-Eingang")

#2
Thanks to @nica for pointing out this obviously wrong translation:

• It's really necessary to return to the previous translation; "Vom Server gelöschte Nachrichten auch lokal entfernen"

Kostya Vasilyev

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Re: German translation issues version 1.7.x
« Reply #2 on: December 04, 2016, 10:26:01 pm »
Very good points, thank you both.

As I'm sure you understand, not at all obvious to someone who does not speak German.

Yes, I can make those changes, they make sense --

-- if you're both OK with MobiSystems using those suggested changes, and if you are, can you please confirm. Sorry, those "corporate things".

PS - yes, I do remember the discussion about "Smart-Box" :)



And then, perhaps less apparent...

The "message action" buttons in the app's notifications, you know "move to deleted" etc, by default are "mapped" to strings that are used in the app's "window" (message list).

Well, notifications have very little space.

What I did for English (and Russian) is, used shorter strings for notifications specifically, even if it meant compromising on grammar.

These are for notifications:

Quote
    <string name="action_op_delete_now">Delete now</string>
    <string name="action_op_to_deleted">To Deleted</string>
    <string name="action_op_to_spam">To Spam</string>
    <string name="action_op_to_archive">To Archive</string>
    <string name="action_op_hide">Hide</string>

And these are their "full" variations, used in the app's window (three dot menus, which have much more room):

Quote
    <string name="message_list_op_delete">Delete permanently</string>
    <string name="message_list_op_move_deleted">Move to Deleted</string>
    <string name="message_list_op_move_spam">Move to Spam</string>
    <string name="message_list_op_move_archive">Move to Archive</string>
    <string name="message_list_op_hide">Hide (keep on server)</string>

Current German translations for the app's window:

Quote
    <string name="message_list_op_delete">Endgültig löschen</string>
    <string name="message_list_op_move_deleted">Nach \"Gelöschte Objekte\" verschieben</string>
    <string name="message_list_op_move_spam">In das Spam-Verzeichnis verschieben</string>
    <string name="message_list_op_move_archive">Ins Archiv verschieben</string>
    <string name="message_list_op_hide">Ausblenden (auf dem Server behalten)</string>

And there are *no* shorter overrides for notifications.

Should there be? For German? The "action_op_delete_now" and others, like for English above?
Creating debug logs for diagnostics: https://www.aqua-mail.com/troubleshooting/

The official FAQ: https://www.aqua-mail.com/faq/

Лог-файлы для диагностики: https://www.aqua-mail.com/ru/troubleshooting/

Вопросы и ответы: https://www.aqua-mail.com/ru/faq/

mikeone

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Re: German translation issues version 1.7.x
« Reply #3 on: December 04, 2016, 10:50:16 pm »
Very good points, thank you both.

As I'm sure you understand, not at all obvious to someone who does not speak German.

Yes, I can make those changes, they make sense --

-- if you're both OK with MobiSystems using those suggested changes, and if you are, can you please confirm. Sorry, those "corporate things".
Hi Kostya:
I confirm that "my" translations / suggestions could be used also by MobiSystems (but limited to the app 'Aqua Mail').

Kostya Vasilyev

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Re: German translation issues version 1.7.x
« Reply #4 on: December 04, 2016, 10:59:33 pm »
Quote
I confirm that "my" translations / suggestions could be used also by MobiSystems (but limited to the app 'Aqua Mail').

Thank you Mike, yes this is for Aqua Mail only.
Creating debug logs for diagnostics: https://www.aqua-mail.com/troubleshooting/

The official FAQ: https://www.aqua-mail.com/faq/

Лог-файлы для диагностики: https://www.aqua-mail.com/ru/troubleshooting/

Вопросы и ответы: https://www.aqua-mail.com/ru/faq/

nica

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Re: German translation issues version 1.7.x
« Reply #5 on: December 04, 2016, 11:24:51 pm »
Current German translations for the app's window:

Quote
    <string name="message_list_op_delete">Endgültig löschen</string>
    <string name="message_list_op_move_deleted">Nach \"Gelöschte Objekte\" verschieben</string>
    <string name="message_list_op_move_spam">In das Spam-Verzeichnis verschieben</string>
    <string name="message_list_op_move_archive">Ins Archiv verschieben</string>
    <string name="message_list_op_hide">Ausblenden (auf dem Server behalten)</string>

And there are *no* shorter overrides for notifications.
Oops. Usually I have enabled "Only symbols, no text". Now I switched to "symbols and text". And I totally agree: Too long for notification's actions.
And
Quote
even if it meant compromising on grammar

I agree, too.


Suggestions with strong shortening:

Quote
<string name="message_list_op_delete">Löschen</string>
 <string name="message_list_op_move_deleted">Zu \"Gelöscht\" </string>
 <string name="message_list_op_move_spam">Zu Spam</string>
 <string name="message_list_op_move_archive">Zum Archiv</string>
<string name="message_list_op_hide">Ausblenden</string>


What about the "Mark as read"-action, also to be found in notifications?


And I confirm that "my" translation /suggestions could be used also by Mobisystems (limited to AquaMail) ;)
« Last Edit: December 04, 2016, 11:39:35 pm by nica »

mikeone

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Re: German translation issues version 1.7.x
« Reply #6 on: December 05, 2016, 12:09:28 am »
Current German translations for the app's window:

Quote
    <string name="message_list_op_delete">Endgültig löschen</string>
    <string name="message_list_op_move_deleted">Nach \"Gelöschte Objekte\" verschieben</string>
    <string name="message_list_op_move_spam">In das Spam-Verzeichnis verschieben</string>
    <string name="message_list_op_move_archive">Ins Archiv verschieben</string>
    <string name="message_list_op_hide">Ausblenden (auf dem Server behalten)</string>

And there are *no* shorter overrides for notifications.

Suggestions with strong shortening:

Quote
<string name="message_list_op_delete">Löschen</string>
 <string name="message_list_op_move_deleted">Zu \"Gelöscht\" </string>
 <string name="message_list_op_move_spam">Zu Spam</string>
 <string name="message_list_op_move_archive">Zum Archiv</string>
<string name="message_list_op_hide">Ausblenden</string>

@nica:
Thanks for your suggestions. However, I guess they are still too long
(how many characters are visible: 5, 6, 7,.. ?)

The "strongest shortening" version for notifications / actions could be:

      <string name="action_op_delete_now">Löschen</string>
      <string name="action_op_to_deleted">Papierkorb</string>
      <string name="action_op_to_spam">Spam</string>
      <string name="action_op_to_archive">Archiv</string>
      <string name="action_op_hide">Ausblenden</string>


And there should be (at least) another one:

English:
message_list_op_ > action_op_
"Mark as read" > "Read"

German:
message_list_op_ > action_op_
"Als Gelesen markieren" > "Gelesen"


« Last Edit: December 05, 2016, 12:15:38 am by mikeone »

nica

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Re: German translation issues version 1.7.x
« Reply #7 on: December 05, 2016, 12:21:12 am »


@nica:
Thanks for your suggestions. However, I guess they are still too long
(how many characters are visible: 5, 6, 7,.. ?)
Kostya used up to 10 characters in english. "Zu 'Gelöscht'" has more characters, the other strings could fit.

But I' m fine with your suggestions, including "Gelesen".



Kostya Vasilyev

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Re: German translation issues version 1.7.x
« Reply #8 on: December 05, 2016, 12:36:35 am »
Re: And I confirm that "my" translation /suggestions could be used also by Mobisystems (limited to AquaMail) ;)

Thank you @nica.

( BTW, Android 7 uses text only and no icons )

Re: Suggestions with strong shortening:

Thank you. I've ended up doing this:

Quote
   <string name="action_op_delete_now">Löschen</string>
   <string name="action_op_to_deleted">Zu \"Gelöscht\" </string>
   <string name="action_op_to_spam">Zu Spam</string>
   <string name="action_op_to_archive">Zum Archiv</string>
   <string name="action_op_hide">Ausblenden</string>
   <string name="action_op_as_read">Gelesen</string>

( didn't like "Papierkorb" because that term isn't used anywhere else in the app )

Are these OK?

I've also changed "Gelöscht Objekte" to just "Gelöscht" (folder name), that "Objekte" seemed strange, there was no "Gesendet Objekte", just "Gesendet" and so on.

Is that OK?

And finally, I'll be changing Smart-Ordner back to Smart-Box.

No new build today, but the next one will have it.
Creating debug logs for diagnostics: https://www.aqua-mail.com/troubleshooting/

The official FAQ: https://www.aqua-mail.com/faq/

Лог-файлы для диагностики: https://www.aqua-mail.com/ru/troubleshooting/

Вопросы и ответы: https://www.aqua-mail.com/ru/faq/

Kostya Vasilyev

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Re: German translation issues version 1.7.x
« Reply #9 on: December 05, 2016, 12:37:44 am »
Re: And finally, I'll be changing Smart-Ordner back to Smart-Box.

Should it be Smart-Box or SmartBox?
Creating debug logs for diagnostics: https://www.aqua-mail.com/troubleshooting/

The official FAQ: https://www.aqua-mail.com/faq/

Лог-файлы для диагностики: https://www.aqua-mail.com/ru/troubleshooting/

Вопросы и ответы: https://www.aqua-mail.com/ru/faq/

nica

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Re: German translation issues version 1.7.x
« Reply #10 on: December 05, 2016, 12:48:07 am »
Ok for me.

(But I can't find "Gelöscht Objekte" in 1.7.0-52 dev. Didn't noticed that).

And I would rather prefer "SmartBox" as a clear artificial term (as in 1.6.x). But not important.

Kostya Vasilyev

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Re: German translation issues version 1.7.x
« Reply #11 on: December 05, 2016, 02:00:26 am »
Re: (But I can't find "Gelöscht Objekte" in 1.7.0-52 dev. Didn't noticed that).

Right, that's not there yet, I'm only making the changes "now".

It will be in the next build (currently posted is 1.7.0-61-dev and it's from yesterday, doesn't have this yet).

Re: Smart-Box -> SmartBox

Will do.
Creating debug logs for diagnostics: https://www.aqua-mail.com/troubleshooting/

The official FAQ: https://www.aqua-mail.com/faq/

Лог-файлы для диагностики: https://www.aqua-mail.com/ru/troubleshooting/

Вопросы и ответы: https://www.aqua-mail.com/ru/faq/

mikeone

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Re: German translation issues version 1.7.x
« Reply #12 on: December 05, 2016, 08:17:24 am »
@Kostya:
Great and thanks, that's all okay.
Thanks again to @nica for his original post.
Mikeone

Kostya Vasilyev

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Re: German translation issues version 1.7.x
« Reply #13 on: December 05, 2016, 09:13:32 pm »
This new build:

http://www.aqua-mail.com/forum/index.php?topic=5205.0

has all the above changes.
Creating debug logs for diagnostics: https://www.aqua-mail.com/troubleshooting/

The official FAQ: https://www.aqua-mail.com/faq/

Лог-файлы для диагностики: https://www.aqua-mail.com/ru/troubleshooting/

Вопросы и ответы: https://www.aqua-mail.com/ru/faq/

nica

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Re: German translation issues version 1.7.x
« Reply #14 on: December 05, 2016, 09:20:17 pm »
@Kostya:
Thanks, but it was not successful for all points mentioned.

You did a "Find & Replace" action for "Verzeichnis" and "Ordner"

Unfortunately:
- Plural of "Verzeichnis" is "Verzeichnisse"
- Plural of "Ordner" is "Ordner"

So we got a lot of senseless "Ordnerse" now in AquaMail... :)

Please replace all "Ordnerse" with "Ordner". Then it will be ok in this point.

Btw: notification actions seems to be good now.
Also the other things I mentioned are fixed, thx.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2016, 09:25:26 pm by nica »