Author Topic: Conversation Mode clarification  (Read 19762 times)

arf8

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Re: Conversation Mode clarification
« Reply #30 on: February 14, 2017, 11:29:49 pm »
Sending it now to kmansoft / gmail / dot com

Thanks

arf8

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Re: Conversation Mode clarification
« Reply #31 on: February 15, 2017, 07:47:42 pm »
For those wondering this is what it looks like. Data is being sent to Kostya

arf8

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Re: Conversation Mode clarification
« Reply #32 on: March 02, 2017, 01:07:53 am »
It seems to have gotten worse with v1.8, did something change in the code which handles the header information?

Surely there has to be a way to make it more robust like the Gmail app which handles header information or lack there of better.

Asking people to change their email clients is not feasible. I can rarely get a group conversation which is not broken up by individual contacts with multiple emails in v1.8.




arf8

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Re: Conversation Mode clarification
« Reply #33 on: March 02, 2017, 01:18:40 am »
There is a problem, it is documents and Kostya is well aware of it.

If you are unaware of the issue read this thread. As to if any of this was changed in 1.8 or not is TBD although the release notes makes no mention, it does not mean tweaks under the hood will be listed.

This issue is not going to fix itself or get better with time sadly and makes the conversation mode worthless.

Davey126

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Re: Conversation Mode clarification
« Reply #34 on: March 02, 2017, 03:29:28 pm »
There is a problem, it is documents and Kostya is well aware of it.

If you are unaware of the issue read this thread. As to if any of this was changed in 1.8 or not is TBD although the release notes makes no mention, it does not mean tweaks under the hood will be listed.

This issue is not going to fix itself or get better with time sadly and makes the conversation mode worthless.
Daily user; have not noticed any difference in conversation grouping/integrity with v1.8. If Aqua isn't serving your needs might consider a different mail client. Gmail perhaps.

arf8

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Re: Conversation Mode clarification
« Reply #35 on: March 02, 2017, 07:11:41 pm »
I jumped from Gmail to Aqua because of the ability to change the colors. I have high hopes this will get resolved perhaps.

Kostya Vasilyev

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Re: Conversation Mode clarification
« Reply #36 on: March 03, 2017, 06:36:29 pm »
Re: It seems to have gotten worse with v1.8, did something change in the code which handles the header information?

No, nothing has changed in message header code or conversation code in 1.8.
Creating debug logs for diagnostics: https://www.aqua-mail.com/troubleshooting/

The official FAQ: https://www.aqua-mail.com/faq/

Лог-файлы для диагностики: https://www.aqua-mail.com/ru/troubleshooting/

Вопросы и ответы: https://www.aqua-mail.com/ru/faq/

arf8

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Re: Conversation Mode clarification
« Reply #37 on: March 03, 2017, 07:35:40 pm »
thanks for the confirmation. It seems like more and more contacts are using clients which don't follow the header rules. Quite annoying.

StR

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Re: Conversation Mode clarification
« Reply #38 on: March 03, 2017, 10:13:41 pm »
Kostya, sorry, just in case it went off your radar:
Above in this thread, @arf8 sent you the messages (headers) that visibly had the correct headers needed for thread detection. Were you able to figure out the issue with those?
(Previously, you had a concern that the lines could have been broken up, but that could be a function of Copy-N-Paste).

I believe that might be an important key to @arf8's threads problem resolution.

arf8

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Re: Conversation Mode clarification
« Reply #39 on: March 03, 2017, 10:19:32 pm »
I'll let Kostya chime in but the short answer is different email clients manage and handle header information differently. I have contacts who use hotmail, gmail, AOL, yahoo to name a few and unlike the Gmail app which can use the header information and possibly parse the message to figure out which emails are part of what conversation, Aqua mail can not do this.

So with Aqua mail you have to just expect the conversation mode feature will not work and I'm finding this to be a headache replying to emails, not knowing which one is the latest and who replied to who unless I open all the different grouped individual conversations. Really was hoping this is something that could be fixed in Aqua but it does not sound like it.

StR

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Re: Conversation Mode clarification
« Reply #40 on: March 03, 2017, 11:18:15 pm »
... unlike the Gmail app which can use the header information and possibly parse the message to figure out which emails are part of what conversation, Aqua mail can not do this.

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."  Arthur C Clarke

There is no real magic behind thread detection in Aquamail, just a well defined logic (while I suspect GMail server might be using what is called "fuzzy logic", but my comment is not about that).

There are two issues that it looks like are being mixed up, and that's not helping anybody. I thought I explained this in the earlier part of the thread, but maybe it was not clear.

(A)
One: there is a well defined case where Aquamail does not group messages to a thread (but Gmail does/might): The same subject, different senders on the other end, and no "References" or "Reply-To" headers.

And if one disabled the option responsible for this: Aquamail will not group messages that have: the same subject, the same sender, but no "References" or "Reply-To" headers.

(Note, that everything I've seen from Davey126 and everybody else in these forums complaining about thread grouping falls into this category [since the initial quirks have been fixed more than a year ago]. So, your case here is quite likely unique.)

(B)
A very different issue that seems to be the case in the example you made above in this thread ( https://www.aqua-mail.com/forum/index.php?topic=5361.msg31829#msg31829 ) is when the headers in question are present. According to Aquamail's logic those messages should have been grouped in one thread/conversation. And that's where I suspect the culprit of most of your problems might be.
I am actually very curious to hear the result of Kostya's analysis.

So far, I expect it could be one of the following:
1. Something in your server breaks/modifies the headers of the incoming messages. But, AFAIR, you are using Gmail account (right?). In that case, I don't expect such a problem.
2. There is some "zero-day" bug in Aquamail that gets triggered in your case. -- This seems to be very unlikely, but that makes it even more important to find and fix.
3. Some type of corruption of the database.
4. Something totally weird in the device/configuration ...

So with Aqua mail you have to just expect the conversation mode feature will not work ...

Look, I understand that you are frustrated because something does not work for you. And even if it would've worked for everybody else in the world, what ultimately matters to you is that it does not work for you. But if you want the issue to be resolved, the hysteria about the issue does not help.
I know that you provided the information requested. So, let's have some patience, while awaiting the outcome of Kostya's investigation.

arf8

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Re: Conversation Mode clarification
« Reply #41 on: March 03, 2017, 11:33:21 pm »
First of all, the only "hysteria" and "confusion" is caused by your own response! so relax...

As i stated this is something Kostya and I have discussed based on the data analysis, so rather than jumping to a conclusion about zero-day and what ever lavish conclusion you can come up with, why don't you take my response for what it is and except the fact different email clients handle header information differently.

There is nothing wrong on my end or theirs. It is simply the way Aqua mail handles messages based on the header information. Gmail and other apps use a logic beyond just header information to group messages in a conversation view.

There is no confusion or ambiguity and there is only one issue. Rather than to confuse yourself and everyone else, take a step back and realize this is not going to be resolved anytime soon and it is the nature of using Aqua Mail unless the developers decide to make a change which has been pointed out likely not.


arf8

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Re: Conversation Mode clarification
« Reply #42 on: March 04, 2017, 12:14:27 am »
There is nothing unknown here as I previously stated. You are simply repeating what I have stated.

Contacts with different email clients whether it is mobile or desktop handle message headers differently.

Gmail has never incorrectly grouped messages, not once in my 20+ years using Gmail! Not here to start a pissing match about gmail, but making claims like that you should be very cautious!

I have contacts who use just about every email client you can think of and they are not grouped correctly in Aqua conversation view. There is no ambiguity or confusion how these messages should be grouped and they simply are not grouped correctly.

This a NOT a Aqua bug, it is the inherent way Aqua relies on simple header information to group messages. Could this be fixed, sure if the developers want to pursue this, and it has been made clear it is not going to be fixed!

I simply asked if something had changed in v1.8 to affect conversation mode b/c it only got worse, and it was answered already by Kostya.




Davey126

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Re: Conversation Mode clarification
« Reply #43 on: March 04, 2017, 06:18:11 am »
There is nothing unknown here as I previously stated. You are simply repeating what I have stated.

Contacts with different email clients whether it is mobile or desktop handle message headers differently.

Gmail has never incorrectly grouped messages, not once in my 20+ years using Gmail! Not here to start a pissing match about gmail, but making claims like that you should be very cautious!

I have contacts who use just about every email client you can think of and they are not grouped correctly in Aqua conversation view. There is no ambiguity or confusion how these messages should be grouped and they simply are not grouped correctly.

This a NOT a Aqua bug, it is the inherent way Aqua relies on simple header information to group messages. Could this be fixed, sure if the developers want to pursue this, and it has been made clear it is not going to be fixed!

I simply asked if something had changed in v1.8 to affect conversation mode b/c it only got worse, and it was answered already by Kostya.
Opinion noted but not definative. Gmail does not always get it right (however you choose to define that) with individual emails or small groups occasionally falling out of the main coversation. In this context "correctly" is a subjective term.

Your arrgresive characterizations of experienced contributors and the development team are both inaccurate and unappreciated.

arf8

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Re: Conversation Mode clarification
« Reply #44 on: March 04, 2017, 07:14:55 am »
Opinion noted

Good, leave it at that... Reading comprehension goes a long way! This thread was over many posts ago, when it was made clear no changes were made.

Ha, I'm not even going to dignify a response to the rest of your juvenile insinuatory response. This is a tech forum, you are not going to inveigle me,  conduct yourself like a professional instead of inciting antagonistic comments with no merit.