Author Topic: Aqua Mail is spying on us.  (Read 15639 times)

ksuuk

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Aqua Mail is spying on us.
« on: November 05, 2020, 10:34:47 am »
Hi,

Since June 17, 2020, version 1.25.0-1610 Aqua Mail includes trackers:
firebase-settings.crashlytics.com
firebaseinstallations.googleapis.com

Users find out the trackers and demanded to remove them, Aqua Mail first ignored, then promised to remove them.

Now 5 months, and several versions later the trackers are still there. Despite of Aqua Mail promised to remove them, nothing is happened, trackers are still there.

This is clear sign, that Aqua Mail will not remove trackers and keeps spying on us.

dries.dokter

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Re: Aqua Mail is spying on us.
« Reply #1 on: November 05, 2020, 10:49:21 am »
In settings About, there is the possibility to uncheck send usage statistics and send crash report.

Are you saying that even if those are unchecked Aquamail is still spying on me?

Sent from my LM-G810 using Tapatalk


ksuuk

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Re: Aqua Mail is spying on us.
« Reply #2 on: November 05, 2020, 10:55:51 am »

Are you saying that even if those are unchecked Aquamail is still spying on me?


Yes, as these trackers are hardcoded:

firebase-settings.crashlytics.com
firebaseinstallations.googleapis.com

Michael Maslarov, Aqua Mail

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Re: Aqua Mail is spying on us.
« Reply #3 on: November 05, 2020, 02:07:46 pm »
Hi ksuuk,

This is a very disrespectful claim and very disrespectful to all of the team members that work day and night to make Aqua Mail such a great app. "Aqua Mail is spying on you!", this is simply not true and it's a false claim!

My apology but we talked about this issue so many times. We are as transparent as possible. Aqua Mail is not spying on you. This is also not analytics. This is a Google issue, not Aqua Mail's. Ask them why every service that we developers have to use is so hard to contain to not connect to their services. Maybe you will claim why Aqua mail needs internet or Android to run. Here is one of the answers we received from them stating that it's expected behavior:

"In addition, we would like to know if the "firebaseinstallations.googleapis.com" request is made every time the app is started even when Crashlytics is disabled in the manifest file.

If it does end up being the latter, then that's an expected behavior that our engineers are aware of, and we’ll address it down the road. Our priorities, however, could change from time to time, and I’m unable to give you a definite timeline as to when this would be available."

If you'd like to help us out, please share with us any information that you may find out how we can go around this issue. Maybe you can find info on how somebody else fixed this with Crashlytics. We are nagging Google for over a few months now with this issue and they are just arrogant enough not to make any move on fixing it. Also if you have unchecked the boxes for analytics and you still see the requests please send us the log.

ksuuk

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Re: Aqua Mail is spying on us.
« Reply #4 on: November 05, 2020, 03:16:44 pm »
Hi ksuuk,

This is a very disrespectful claim and very disrespectful to all of the team members that work day and night to make Aqua Mail such a great app. "Aqua Mail is spying on you!", this is simply not true and it's a false claim!

My apology but we talked about this issue so many times. We are as transparent as possible. Aqua Mail is not spying on you. This is also not analytics. This is a Google issue, not Aqua Mail's. Ask them why every service that we developers have to use is so hard to contain to not connect to their services. Maybe you will claim why Aqua mail needs internet or Android to run. Here is one of the answers we received from them stating that it's expected behavior:

"In addition, we would like to know if the "firebaseinstallations.googleapis.com" request is made every time the app is started even when Crashlytics is disabled in the manifest file.

If it does end up being the latter, then that's an expected behavior that our engineers are aware of, and we’ll address it down the road. Our priorities, however, could change from time to time, and I’m unable to give you a definite timeline as to when this would be available."

If you'd like to help us out, please share with us any information that you may find out how we can go around this issue. Maybe you can find info on how somebody else fixed this with Crashlytics. We are nagging Google for over a few months now with this issue and they are just arrogant enough not to make any move on fixing it. Also if you have unchecked the boxes for analytics and you still see the requests please send us the log.


I especially made new topic, as this issue keeps pop constantly, but Aqua Mail avoids it.

The code belongs to Aqua Mail, not to  Google.  Based -  https://firebase.google.com/docs/crashlytics/get-started it's analytics code and it's needed manually to add into app. If so, then why Aqua Mail developers added it at all and why they can't remove it from code? And if developer does something, without understanding what it does, then I suggest hire better developers.

Screenshot added.

Michael Maslarov, Aqua Mail

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Re: Aqua Mail is spying on us.
« Reply #5 on: November 05, 2020, 06:57:45 pm »
You are clearly not reading what I am writing, and you are clearly uninformed about what Crashlytics is used for. Also sending a log is not sending a screenshot from AdGuard. Does it make any sense for me to continue writing? You can either choose to help for real or stop spreading false accusations.

ksuuk

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Re: Aqua Mail is spying on us.
« Reply #6 on: November 05, 2020, 07:12:46 pm »
You are clearly not reading what I am writing, and you are clearly uninformed about what Crashlytics is used for. Also sending a log is not sending a screenshot from AdGuard. Does it make any sense for me to continue writing? You can either choose to help for real or stop spreading false accusations.

You did not answer, what was changed in code since 1.25.0-1610, when these trackers appeared?

And are You seriously saying, that for 5 moths Aqua Mail developers can't install AdGuard or similar app or dump the traffic and figure out what is going on? This is kind of scary, if developers don't know what their app does.

BTW, I have a lot apps in my phone and only Aqua Mail is connecting to these trackers. How others can and Aqua Mail can't ?
« Last Edit: November 05, 2020, 07:16:04 pm by ksuuk »

arf8

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Re: Aqua Mail is spying on us.
« Reply #7 on: November 05, 2020, 07:39:27 pm »
Hi ksuuk,

This is a very disrespectful claim and very disrespectful to all of the team members that work day and night to make Aqua Mail such a great app. "Aqua Mail is spying on you!", this is simply not true and it's a false claim!

My apology but we talked about this issue so many times. We are as transparent as possible. Aqua Mail is not spying on you. This is also not analytics. This is a Google issue, not Aqua Mail's. Ask them why every service that we developers have to use is so hard to contain to not connect to their services. Maybe you will claim why Aqua mail needs internet or Android to run. Here is one of the answers we received from them stating that it's expected behavior:

"In addition, we would like to know if the "firebaseinstallations.googleapis.com" request is made every time the app is started even when Crashlytics is disabled in the manifest file.

If it does end up being the latter, then that's an expected behavior that our engineers are aware of, and we’ll address it down the road. Our priorities, however, could change from time to time, and I’m unable to give you a definite timeline as to when this would be available."

If you'd like to help us out, please share with us any information that you may find out how we can go around this issue. Maybe you can find info on how somebody else fixed this with Crashlytics. We are nagging Google for over a few months now with this issue and they are just arrogant enough not to make any move on fixing it. Also if you have unchecked the boxes for analytics and you still see the requests please send us the log.

That is not true, it is added in by Aqua mail developers. App developers choose to add what they want from google offering. Instead of being defensive, address the problem by simply removing it from the source! It is not that difficult unless there is other motives by AM with this data!

If you want us to fix the problem as you state, make the source code public, and I'll gladly show you where you have it in your code. You can run your own catlogs and see the calls made, it is not difficult. Frankly I'm inclined to decompile your code and show you where it exists to shut this nonsense down. Playing ignorant is no excuse and when this other user has asked for 5 months to remove this and AM chose to ignore the request says a lot. Over the past 5 months there have not been any extraordinary changes to keep all your developers busy from resolving this matter!

As mentioned "You did not answer, what was changed in code since 1.25.0-1610, when these trackers appeared?"

arf8

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Re: Aqua Mail is spying on us.
« Reply #8 on: November 05, 2020, 07:42:42 pm »
You are clearly not reading what I am writing, and you are clearly uninformed about what Crashlytics is used for. Also sending a log is not sending a screenshot from AdGuard. Does it make any sense for me to continue writing? You can either choose to help for real or stop spreading false accusations.

You did not answer, what was changed in code since 1.25.0-1610, when these trackers appeared?

And are You seriously saying, that for 5 moths Aqua Mail developers can't install AdGuard or similar app or dump the traffic and figure out what is going on? This is kind of scary, if developers don't know what their app does.

BTW, I have a lot apps in my phone and only Aqua Mail is connecting to these trackers. How others can and Aqua Mail can't ?

Well said, it is smoke and mirrors frankly. They likely did not assume people who care about privacy would bring this up.

The lack of shame in the response says it all

Michael Maslarov, Aqua Mail

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Re: Aqua Mail is spying on us.
« Reply #9 on: November 05, 2020, 09:53:37 pm »
Did you guys clear data after you unchecked the statistics box and then started AM again? Did these trackers appear again? If they do we need the log from our app.

We reproduced that if you uncheck the statistics in the settings and then go to the app settings and clear data, then start the app again the Crashlytics are not starting, I think we mentioned that. If you still get the same issue then please send back the log created from our app.

arf8

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Re: Aqua Mail is spying on us.
« Reply #10 on: November 06, 2020, 10:18:56 am »
Why not be transparent and remove it from the source code?

You expect all users to know this procedure, a little short sided to have a known issue and ignore it, especially since it was reported months ago.

I had also disabled this when it was first introduced years ago, but after an update from 1.24 to 1.26 it checked itself automatically unbeknownst to me. A little unpleasant surprise as you might expect. What ever changes the developers made in 1.25 is more sinister than just adding the tracker!

You need to scrub the code and remove it, transparency goes a long way. It should not take you any longer to look at the code than half the time you've spent defending the indefinable change and asking for user logs and offering a temporary fix.

Michael Maslarov, Aqua Mail

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Re: Aqua Mail is spying on us.
« Reply #11 on: November 06, 2020, 12:44:45 pm »
I told you why we are not removing the code, it's bringing a lot of value for Aqua Mail to be stable which has brought a lot of benefits to all Aqua Mail users.

Transparent means, that I and the others from the team are here to explain what exactly this code is used for and why it is so badly needed. Transparent doesn't mean that we do what you think we should do. This doesn't give you the right to post misleading accusations. Again I think that you are not reading anything of what I am saying above. Also, transparent means that we are trying to figure out how to stop all pings that Google triggers when it shouldn't be doing- we have successfully contained the majority of them but just these two are still left. Transparent means to keep you in the loop of our communication with Google on how we are trying to resolve it.

I'm saying it again Crashlytics has helped tremendously in finding and resolving crashes faster and more efficiently. Many times problems are fixed much faster. Crashlytics is not a marketing tool. This is transparency.

Did you try and do what I suggested anyway? Prove me wrong and show me that you want to help and stop avoiding my question.


Michael Maslarov, Aqua Mail

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Re: Aqua Mail is spying on us.
« Reply #12 on: November 06, 2020, 12:49:43 pm »
Just to ask one more thing:

"I had also disabled this when it was first introduced years ago, but after an update from 1.24 to 1.26 it checked itself automatically unbeknownst to me. A little unpleasant surprise as you might expect."

What does "this" mean, the statistics box or the crashlytics box?

ksuuk

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Re: Aqua Mail is spying on us.
« Reply #13 on: November 06, 2020, 02:53:30 pm »
I told you why we are not removing the code, it's bringing a lot of value for Aqua Mail to be stable which has brought a lot of benefits to all Aqua Mail users.

Ok, this is clear, You admitted that Aqua Mail lied to us -  https://www.aqua-mail.com/forum/index.php?topic=7884.msg44388#msg44388

"Yes we know. As Nadia communicated, we added a fix for the initialization of the Facebook SDK in the Pro version.

A setting in the next version of the app will specifically disable Crashlytics.

In general Crashlytics help us track, prioritize, group together and fix stability issues that erode Aqua Mail's quality, in real-time. Crashlytics are anonymous.

Again a setting will allow you to disable these in the next app version."

I'm saying it again Crashlytics has helped tremendously in finding and resolving crashes faster and more efficiently. Many times problems are fixed much faster. Crashlytics is not a marketing tool. This is transparency.


I read all release notes and could not found any specified fixes,  so I'd like to know what problems exactly did You find out and fixed faster?

Mukossan

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Re: Aqua Mail is spying on us.
« Reply #14 on: November 06, 2020, 04:40:53 pm »
I told you why we are not removing the code, it's bringing a lot of value for Aqua Mail to be stable which has brought a lot of benefits to all Aqua Mail users.

Ok, this is clear, You admitted that Aqua Mail lied to us -  https://www.aqua-mail.com/forum/index.php?topic=7884.msg44388#msg44388

"Yes we know. As Nadia communicated, we added a fix for the initialization of the Facebook SDK in the Pro version.

A setting in the next version of the app will specifically disable Crashlytics.

In general Crashlytics help us track, prioritize, group together and fix stability issues that erode Aqua Mail's quality, in real-time. Crashlytics are anonymous.

Again a setting will allow you to disable these in the next app version."

I'm saying it again Crashlytics has helped tremendously in finding and resolving crashes faster and more efficiently. Many times problems are fixed much faster. Crashlytics is not a marketing tool. This is transparency.


I read all release notes and could not found any specified fixes,  so I'd like to know what problems exactly did You find out and fixed faster?
Wow, this thread is extremely entertaining!