Author Topic: time reversed order in conversation view  (Read 12649 times)

shallpion

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time reversed order in conversation view
« on: February 10, 2016, 07:29:27 pm »
Hi, I am using aqua mail 1.6.0.11 and i like the conversation view feature. However I wish the conversation is sorted in time reversed order, oldest at first and latest the last, more like how conversation is organized in the official gmail app. Can this be implemented in future version? Thanks!

mikeone

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Re: time reversed order in conversation view
« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2016, 09:44:41 pm »
Hi,

You could use sort order "By date/time (reverse)":
> Message list > Menu (three dots button) > Sort

But this option is related only to the overall list like that: oldest to newest top to bottom

However, inside each conversation the children remains sorted: newest to oldest top to bottom

> otherwise this would makes each conversation, when not expanded, show the oldest child message's data (not newest) which would be useless -  in message list - in my opinion.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2016, 10:08:29 pm by mikeone »

shallpion

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Re: time reversed order in conversation view
« Reply #2 on: February 11, 2016, 02:47:42 am »
Hi,

You could use sort order "By date/time (reverse)":
> Message list > Menu (three dots button) > Sort

But this option is related only to the overall list like that: oldest to newest top to bottom

However, inside each conversation the children remains sorted: newest to oldest top to bottom

> otherwise this would makes each conversation, when not expanded, show the oldest child message's data (not newest) which would be useless -  in message list - in my opinion.

Thank you mikeone for the suggestion, I also tried this reversed sort order and found it even more inconvenient...it is somehow really strange to see anyone would want to sort the inbox message list in a time-reversed order all together...

shallpion

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Re: time reversed order in conversation view
« Reply #3 on: February 11, 2016, 03:03:41 am »


The official Gmail app and AquaMail are two different applications. AquaMail doesn't have to copy Gmail.

Gmail is a cloud based app. Meaning that your messages (and your private information inside them) are copied on Gmail's servers, then treated (all of them), making it possible to display all (or part of them) in a conversation. Example: if you receive today a response to an email that you sent 2 years ago, they will both appear in one conversation. This is not the case with AquaMail, which DOES NOT STORE your messages on a server. In the example I gave, the response will not be linked to your message unless you ask the app to sync enough messages (hundreds, or maybe thousands) to reach the message sent 2 years ago.

So, there are pros and cons for Gmail and AquaMail. What I'm trying to say is that this is not a good thing to have AquaMail behave exactly like Gmail.

Yes, of course I wasn't trying to request AquaMail to be like Gmail, or else why wouldn't I just use Gmail app instead of buying AquaMail :) The point I was trying to make is merely using Gmail's behavior as a demonstration of the feature I was describing. Personally I think it is not a Gmail-exclusive thing, to sort message list newest-first-oldest-last but to sort messages in a single conversation in reversed order. In fact I think it is a more natural way people read a conversation. Just take this AquaMail Forum as example: all threads are sorted so the one with newest reply would appear as the first thread in a discussion board, however if you click open a thread, you would read the original post at first, which is followed chronologically by replies. People would want to see what were being discussed in a conversation before replying it, that should be the whole point of grouping messages into a conversation. We also discourage people from top-posting during email discussion for exactly the same reason (though I understand there are many proponents for it as well...), and this is especially true when the email conversation is among several person (like a real conversation in mail-list) and I may not be aware of what is really being discussed until I read all of them.

As for the limitation of conversation view, I surely can image that especially the example you listed. I wouldn't be whining at all if AquaMail cannot, say, group a 2-year old conversation, I think it has the "smart message navigation" feature exactly for this reason. But at least I think it should provide us with an option to choose the order we sort conversation messages. After all it has the option to sort the message list in reversed time order, which I indeed believe to be much less commonly used, if it were used at all..


Thanks :)

mikeone

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Re: time reversed order in conversation view
« Reply #4 on: February 11, 2016, 09:08:29 am »
Thank you mikeone for the suggestion, I also tried this reversed sort order and found it even more inconvenient...it is somehow really strange to see anyone would want to sort the inbox message list in a time-reversed order all together...
Usually in normal business live the files and documents in folders are sorted chronologically "newest to oldest": top to bottom.

That's the reason why the sort order "oldest to newest" is named "... reversed)" in the app's settings, but will not be used within a conversation.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2016, 09:16:24 am by mikeone »

StR

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Re: time reversed order in conversation view
« Reply #5 on: February 11, 2016, 04:06:07 pm »
@Paris Geek, @Mikeone:
This question was raised before, and think it makes perfect sense to have an option for messages within the conversation ordered chronologically: when you are reading it (conversation) many messages at once, to read as a story, in order of appearance (and not like Tarantino's movie.  ;) )
Not everebody reads all messages immediately upon arrival.
And the fact that Kostya is reluctant to create this option #1025, doesn't negate this logic.

Kostya Vasilyev

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Re: time reversed order in conversation view
« Reply #6 on: February 12, 2016, 08:58:55 pm »
Personally, I always change Thunderbird to sort "newest to oldest top to bottom". But then I also "top post" on mailing lists.

I guess the proposal here has to do this this:

Quote
However, inside each conversation the children remains sorted: newest to oldest top to bottom

???

To also sort children "oldest to newest top to bottom" when a conversation is expanded?
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StR

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Re: time reversed order in conversation view
« Reply #7 on: February 12, 2016, 10:15:00 pm »
To also sort children "oldest to newest top to bottom" when a conversation is expanded?

Yes, that as a minimum. Or, better yet, - to have it as a separate option.
(I.e. you can be reading new messages from the top, but read conversations chronologically.)

Or, maybe this logic makes even more sense:
(1) When the overall sorting is "oldest to newest" -> the conversations are sorted the same way
(2) When the overall sorting is "newest to oldest" -> there is an option for sorting of conversations "oldest to newest".
(3) for other sorting (unread first, starred first, ...) - maybe have the same option as in (2).

shallpion

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Re: time reversed order in conversation view
« Reply #8 on: February 12, 2016, 10:23:04 pm »

Yes, that as a minimum. Or, better yet, - to have it as a separate option.
(I.e. you can be reading new messages from the top, but read conversations chronologically.)

Or, maybe this logic makes even more sense:
(1) When the overall sorting is "oldest to newest" -> the conversations are sorted the same way
(2) When the overall sorting is "newest to oldest" -> there is an option for sorting of conversations "oldest to newest".
(3) for other sorting (unread first, starred first, ...) - maybe have the same option as in (2).

I will second this suggestion. It will be terrific to have options to sort conversation and message list separately. :)

Kostya Vasilyev

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Re: time reversed order in conversation view
« Reply #9 on: February 12, 2016, 10:54:00 pm »
I'll give it more thought. Thanks.
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druckmusik

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Re: time reversed order in conversation view
« Reply #10 on: February 15, 2016, 12:09:38 pm »
Yes, that as a minimum. Or, better yet, - to have it as a separate option.
(I.e. you can be reading new messages from the top, but read conversations chronologically.)

Or, maybe this logic makes even more sense:
(1) When the overall sorting is "oldest to newest" -> the conversations are sorted the same way
(2) When the overall sorting is "newest to oldest" -> there is an option for sorting of conversations "oldest to newest".
(3) for other sorting (unread first, starred first, ...) - maybe have the same option as in (2).

+1 for that.
I also have "newest to oldest", but would like to sort "oldest to newest" in an conversation.


druckmusik

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Re: time reversed order in conversation view
« Reply #11 on: February 15, 2016, 12:31:56 pm »
Yes, that as a minimum. Or, better yet, - to have it as a separate option.
(I.e. you can be reading new messages from the top, but read conversations chronologically.)

Or, maybe this logic makes even more sense:
(1) When the overall sorting is "oldest to newest" -> the conversations are sorted the same way
(2) When the overall sorting is "newest to oldest" -> there is an option for sorting of conversations "oldest to newest".
(3) for other sorting (unread first, starred first, ...) - maybe have the same option as in (2).

+1 for that.
I also have "newest to oldest", but would like to sort "oldest to newest" in an conversation.

Are you aware that "oldest" does not mean the actual oldest message in the conversation?

For example: if you have set your number of sync messages to 50, and your conversation had started long ago before that (farther than the 50 sync messages), you would not get in your list the "oldest" message, but the "oldest synchronized". The "odest synchronized" will be probably different from the "oldest".

With Gmail (the app, based on cloud computing) your messages are downloaded first to their servers then processed, so you get the "oldest". Do you agree that what you are asking for will be a different implementation than Gmail, and that after the implementation you are not going to ask: "Why AquaMail does not show my oldest messages? What's happening here?"

I will also not see the "oldest" message if I sort "newest first"?!
Don't know how Gmail does it, I've never used it (and never will do).

StR

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Re: time reversed order in conversation view
« Reply #12 on: February 15, 2016, 05:23:35 pm »

Yes, you're right. But currently, since the "newest" is displayed first, the user would probably better accept that the conversation list be truncated. I have not seen any message of complaint on the forum related to that.

With or without conversation and any type of sorting,  some people have been, are and will be confused why they don't see some messages that they see via web interface or in Thunderbird.
I don't think the additional sorting option would change that drastically. (Cf.  overall chronological sorting.)

Kostya Vasilyev

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Re: time reversed order in conversation view
« Reply #13 on: February 16, 2016, 11:18:20 pm »
There is a "sort by date/time reversed" for those who want it -- but this topic is about something else.

As I wrote previously, will give it some thought. Don't see this as an issue -- since it won't be the default.
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Kostya Vasilyev

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Re: time reversed order in conversation view
« Reply #14 on: March 06, 2016, 08:13:59 pm »
This is now implemented.

Won't be in the "stable" 1.6.1 which I'm rolling out now -- but will be merged into the next "-dev" build (once I start making those again).
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