Author Topic: Gmail - Deleted Folder Sync  (Read 16687 times)

StR

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Re: Gmail - Deleted Folder Sync
« Reply #15 on: February 13, 2016, 01:57:34 am »
Is is possible to set the Trash folder in AquaMail to sync with Gmail's '[Deleted]' folder on demand vs automatically? This can be done with the Spam and Archive folders but not Deleted, Drafts or Sent.
...

You are using Gmail. Your need can be satisfied in a smart way, simpler than your request (btw: it's silly indeed to store 3000+ in a trash folder on your local device, and to ask AquaMail to adapt to this silly behavior -- the word "silly" is yours :) )

- Create a folder in desktop Gmail, call it "Store" (or whatever you wish)
- In AquaMail, sync your Gmail account using IMAP mode
- In particular, sync your "Store" folder as plain
- When you want to store a message, to keep it for a future use, move this message to your "Store" folder (using move in AquaMail)
- that's it !

With that:
- you can keep your messages for an unlimited period of time, on your server and your local device
- you'll get a quick sync (because you'll use Aquamail's settings by default of # of sync and cache messages)
- you'll use Trash for what it is designed for: Trash is for trash (not to keep unwanted items that *may* need to be accessed on occasion)


Should you have further questions on how you implement this on your device, please let us know.

@Paris Geek:
I might be misreading your suggestion. It is also possible that I am misunderstanding what @Davey126 is suggesting (but this is less likely). But I am not seeing how your solution solves the situation with Gmail.
To work properly, Gmail requires the messages you are deleting to be moved to Trash.
Say, I am doing that on one IMAP-based client.
Now, if I am not going to look at those messages (ever), - why should Aquamail sync Trash (upon every regularly scheduled sync)?

So, similarly to how there is "Spam, do not sync" option, there should be "Trash, do no sync".


@Kostya, - I understand your question whether this has any significant effect... I cannot say, - since I have very few messages in Gmail account synced in Aquamail, and I seldom delete them. (My Trash is empty at the moment.)

Davey126

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Re: Gmail - Deleted Folder Sync
« Reply #16 on: February 13, 2016, 02:13:33 am »
My feedback: I consider your request as not needed (cf. my suggestion you're rejecting) anf dangerous for other users:
One day, a user would unselect by inadvertance this option, then his Deleted folder will not get synced, and problems would appear. He'll put 1 star on Google play, and say that Aquamail is broken. Unfortunately this is real life.
As with any operational setting there is a risk for user misunderstanding/misconfiguration and resulting dissatisfaction. However, the point you raise is valid and needs to be weighted into any decision to proceed or not.

[not trying to make a big deal out of this request...it's just the logical process one goes through when deciding which path to take...even if you don't think of it that way]

Davey126

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Re: Gmail - Deleted Folder Sync
« Reply #17 on: February 13, 2016, 02:38:52 am »
... is this a real issue for you, are you seeing any negative effects of Trash "syncing"?
Nope - other than the long initial sync on new/rebuilt devices (which I do a lot of but obviously not common). In routine use there is an observable but not significant increase in sync time as the deleted folder grows. It does drive frequent, short bursts of network activity but this is not personally bothersome as I enjoy robust mobile and wifi coverage in my daily travels across two countries.

What is noticeable:
- extended sync time if I attempt to cull the deleted folder from the AquaMail client. This would not happen if the sync wasn't automatic as the server would never know what was deleted locally. However, I can not hold this up as justification for change because I voluntarily initiate the cull and know the consequences of doing so (long sync). BTW - same thing happens initiating a 'purge [deleted] folders' from the account menu.
- effectively no cache beyond the sync horizon as the 250 messages I have configured are gobbled up by deleted items. This not a big problem given the speed and availability of network connectivity; I simply drag in another 30 days of messages as needed.

As previously noted it is virtually impossible to initiate a bulk clean-up from the Gmail's clients (app/browser) as 'permanently delete' is only offered for single messages. Google really, really, really wants to keep your trash for 30 days. Probably so they can read it ...
 
How large is the app's database, anyway, on your phone? It's listed in the app's About window.
A very tiddy 38MB, 80% of which is deleted items unless I have done a recent sync of a large folder. But that size could be much larger if the deleted content (message bodies) was sizable. Most of my deleted emails are tiny...a few dozen KB.

Closing comment: Recall the original request was characterized as "low-priority/nice-to-have/only-if-easy-to-implement". I feel this is gotten blown out of proportion. That said, there is justification and logic behind the request ... not just some random fluff that I thought of in the last 10 minutes.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2016, 04:17:35 am by Davey126 »

mikeone

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Re: Gmail - Deleted Folder Sync
« Reply #18 on: February 13, 2016, 02:37:38 pm »
My feedback: I consider your request as not needed (cf. my suggestion you're rejecting) and dangerous for other users:
One day, a user would unselect by inadvertance this option, then his Deleted folder will not get synced, and problems would appear. He'll put 1 star on Google play, and say that Aquamail is broken. Unfortunately this is real life.

And justification for such a claim? Could be I have overlooked a peril. Please enlighten the community so we all understand the danger.

Edit: Previous post (which I failed to quote) that I was responding to was subsequently amended so this follow-up does not make complete sense in the flow of the conversation. Leaving original wording intact.
@Davey126
In my opinion "... the danger" could be as follows:
The user deleted a message (removed from the inbox or from any other folder,  moved to the deleted folder). Afterwards he need the content of this deleted message on another client. Unfortunately this message will be only available in AquaMail, but not on any other device (mobile or pc or even in the webmail account) ... since it was not synced back by AquaMail to the servers deleted folder.
This situation could be very annoying.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2016, 02:39:44 pm by mikeone »

mikeone

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Re: Gmail - Deleted Folder Sync
« Reply #19 on: February 13, 2016, 02:47:18 pm »
Quote
Now, if I am not going to look at those messages (ever), - why should Aquamail sync Trash (upon every regularly scheduled sync)?
@StR
In this specific case - if you are not going to look at those deleted messages (ever) - why not using AquaMail's action "Delete now" (remove deleted messages permanently from server)? That's how I'm dealing with those useless messages.

StR

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Re: Gmail - Deleted Folder Sync
« Reply #20 on: February 13, 2016, 04:21:17 pm »
Quote
Now, if I am not going to look at those messages (ever), - why should Aquamail sync Trash (upon every regularly scheduled sync)?
@StR
In this specific case - if you are not going to look at those deleted messages (ever) - why not using AquaMail's action "Delete now" (remove deleted messages permanently from server)? That's how I'm dealing with those useless messages.

That's how I am doing that but not in Gmail.

To work properly, Gmail requires the messages you are deleting to be moved to Trash.

mikeone

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Re: Gmail - Deleted Folder Sync
« Reply #21 on: February 13, 2016, 05:41:22 pm »
@StR
...mmh, for me it's working as described, even with my Gmail account (in AquaMail)

Davey126

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Re: Gmail - Deleted Folder Sync
« Reply #22 on: February 13, 2016, 08:56:07 pm »
First thanks to @Paris Geek, @mikeone and @SrT for the active discussion; it is appreciated. As most will agree constructive dialog usually yields the best outcomes provide emotions are kept in check (note to self) and sacred cows remain in pasture.

re: "I consider your request as not needed (cf. my suggestion you're rejecting) and dangerous for other users:
One day, a user would unselect by inadvertance this option, then his Deleted folder will not get synced, and problems would appear. He'll put 1 star on Google play, and say that Aquamail is broken. Unfortunately this is real life."


re: In my opinion "... the danger" could be as follows:
The user deleted a message (removed from the inbox or from any other folder,  moved to the deleted folder). Afterwards he need the content of this deleted message on another client. Unfortunately this message will be only available in AquaMail, but not on any other device (mobile or pc or even in the webmail account) ... since it was not synced back by AquaMail to the servers deleted folder.
This situation could be very annoying.


I had considered this but felt most would understand their choices (especially if overtly changed from default values) and recognize what had happen just like with any other selective sync. In that regard I don't see operations on the deleted folder being any different than spam but also realize everyone might not see it that way.

re: In this specific case - if you are not going to look at those deleted messages (ever) - why not using AquaMail's action "Delete now" (remove deleted messages permanently from server)? That's how I'm dealing with those useless messages.

I do use this and can confirm it works for Gmail. However, given high mail volumes it is not efficient to decide between a 'normal' delete and 'immediate' delete while processing each message. Peforming this action in bulk from the deleted folder in AquaMail leads to long sync times (seconds to minutes) on fast connections - likely due to limitations in the protocol which mandate each message be handled individually.

I am looking into a way to more efficiently cull messages on the server side using a combination of AquaMail and the GMail mobile interface which retains 'delete forever' capability on multiple messages. Current challenge is multi-select in Gmail as each item must be ticked individually. The GMail app supports multi-select but, like most clients, downloads messages rather than acting directly on the server version.

There seems to be a lot of energy around this request so I will withdraw it (again). Bit of a head-scratcher as the same selective sync choice exists for spam. Obviously misread the tea-leaves. :) :)

mikeone

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Re: Gmail - Deleted Folder Sync
« Reply #23 on: February 13, 2016, 09:32:46 pm »
Quote
In Paris, I've got unlimited mobile date (50 GB with 4G+ speed),
@Paris Geek :
Wow, you drive my a bit envious
[stuck on 1.5 GB with 4G+]

Quote
Where are u living? Do you have an issue with Wi-Fi or mobile data bandwidth? And which device are you using?
As far as I've learned Davey126 is traveling daily between two countries:
https://www.aqua-mail.com/forum/index.php?topic=4381.msg24510#msg24510

Davey126

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Re: Gmail - Deleted Folder Sync
« Reply #24 on: February 13, 2016, 09:45:59 pm »
@Davey

Where are u living? Do you have an issue with Wi-Fi or mobile data bandwidth? And which device are you using?

In Paris, I've got unlimited mobile date (50 GB with 4G+ speed), and I'm using Note 5 (Android 5.1) and Nexus 6, + some emulated tablets on Genymotion/Linux and Genymotion/Windows.
Northeast USA. Bi-directional mobile data (LTE) hovers in the low 20 Mbps range (a bit slower in Canada); wifi around double that down; 5 Mbps up. Those are extraordinary speeds for the US which lags most of the world. Devices include Moto X and a variety of Fire tablets (great hardware) with custom roms.

The extended sync times I am reporting are largely unrelated to network speed. It is an issue with bulk operations which (I believe) are performed one at a time and involve a lot of overhead. For normal operations AquaMail performs quite well oven completing refreshes involving dozens of items in under a second according to in-app toasts.

As AquaMail is multi-threaded long syncs do not impact productivity. Culling a few hundred items from the deleted folder sets the sync icon spinning but I can immediately go to another folder and peform operations with little/no lag while the sync completes ... even on lower end devices.

Now you may be saying to yourself "everything works - what is this guys problem??". I never claimed a productivity hit largely due to the excellent design of AquaMail. It's an efficiency/optimization issue. Probably gets noticed due to my warped background in control systems where every cycle and byte counts. Obviously a very first world concern.

Again - I appreciate your interest. Probably time to let this one go and focus on more productive ventures.

Edit: removed extraneous detail


« Last Edit: February 14, 2016, 03:15:12 am by Davey126 »

Kostya Vasilyev

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Re: Gmail - Deleted Folder Sync
« Reply #25 on: February 13, 2016, 10:02:25 pm »
Quote
The extended sync times I am reporting are largely unrelated to network speed. It is an issue with bulk operations which (I believe) are performed one at a time and involve a lot of overhead.

Yes, messages are deleted / purged one by one, so you're seeing Gmail's latency (as LTE itself has nice low latency compared to even HSDPA).
Creating debug logs for diagnostics: https://www.aqua-mail.com/troubleshooting/

The official FAQ: https://www.aqua-mail.com/faq/

Лог-файлы для диагностики: https://www.aqua-mail.com/ru/troubleshooting/

Вопросы и ответы: https://www.aqua-mail.com/ru/faq/