Author Topic: 1.6.0-14-dev1.6 - conversation view / группировка сообщений  (Read 19354 times)

Kostya Vasilyev

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http://www.aqua-mail.com/download/AquaMail-market-1.6.0-14-dev1.6.apk

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+ Added settings -> message list -> tap to open first message.

+ Conversations now considers subject: new subject means new conversation.

+ Fixes for conversation grouping in EWS accounts.

+ Please reindex conversations, settings -> message list -> conversation view, turn off and back on.

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+ Добавил настройки - список сообщений - открывать первое сообщение при нажатии.

+ Группировка сообщений учитывает тему: новая тема, значит новая группа.

+ Исправления в коде группировки для учеток Exchange.

+ Необходимо пересчитать группировку, настройки - список сообщений, выключить группировку и включить обратно.

« Last Edit: November 11, 2015, 08:29:27 pm by Kostya Vasilyev, Aqua Mail »
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Kostya Vasilyev

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Gmail, Hotmail -- and I suppose other apps -- break conversations when there is a change in subject (ignoring Re: Fwd: and so on).

I think -- separately from the visuals and interaction patterns -- this is what people are used to.

Not breaking conversations by subject change can be confusing, and there already is evidence of that:

http://www.aqua-mail.com/forum/index.php?topic=4086.msg21642#msg21642
« Last Edit: November 08, 2015, 09:19:50 pm by Kostya Vasilyev, Aqua Mail »
Creating debug logs for diagnostics: https://www.aqua-mail.com/troubleshooting/

The official FAQ: https://www.aqua-mail.com/faq/

Лог-файлы для диагностики: https://www.aqua-mail.com/ru/troubleshooting/

Вопросы и ответы: https://www.aqua-mail.com/ru/faq/

Kostya Vasilyev

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"Yes, you're right, especially if a user not willing to input the recipient email address replies directly to an old mail with a new subject and begins a new conversation/message.
"

I now think that people do it all the time without knowing.

"can be confusing also (many examples can illustrate that"

But not so confusing -- because the broken out messages will still be there, and not having been linked, they'll be easy to see immediately.

As long as we use the same word -- "confusing" -- for both cases, I think we can agree that:

"hey, I see this message, but why is it not linked up" is less confusing than "where did that message go, I can't find it"

or putting it differently:

"this app sucks, it can't even properly group messages" vs. "this app sucks, I can't even find that message"
Creating debug logs for diagnostics: https://www.aqua-mail.com/troubleshooting/

The official FAQ: https://www.aqua-mail.com/faq/

Лог-файлы для диагностики: https://www.aqua-mail.com/ru/troubleshooting/

Вопросы и ответы: https://www.aqua-mail.com/ru/faq/

StR

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If it matters,  I support Paris Geek's suggestions.
There are examples of frequently used software that doesn't break threads based on the new subject.

Moreover,  it might be hard I to handle all possible variations of "Re:" and "Fwd " in various languages.
Even worse, I've seen some mail clients striping a portion at the beginning that ends with a column.

Kostya Vasilyev

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Re: it might be hard I to handle all possible variations of "Re:" and "Fwd " in various languages

Hard but not impossible :)

Re: some mail clients striping a portion at the beginning that ends with a column

colon? ":"?

Don't think it's necessary to be that extreme.

Re: just tested IOS Mail (iPhone): it doesn't break conversation by subject

Great! So the score so far is:

Gmail, Hotmail, Mail.ru: new subject -> new conversation

iPhone Mail: new subject -> same conversation

3 : 1

Oh, and iPhone Mail doesn't show contact images. Should I now remove this too?

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I raised a point about different kinds of "confusing", and haven't seen anyone respond to that.

Does this mean agreement -- that "confusing -> where the heck is my message" is worse than "confusing -> why is this message not linked up"?

That's my rationale, choosing the "less perfect for some but also less horrible when it runs counter to user expectations".

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And yes, it's nice to have a setting for everything.

This -- consider subjects or not -- would mean full reindexing if it's changed. Not very nice.

« Last Edit: November 08, 2015, 11:48:03 pm by Kostya Vasilyev, Aqua Mail »
Creating debug logs for diagnostics: https://www.aqua-mail.com/troubleshooting/

The official FAQ: https://www.aqua-mail.com/faq/

Лог-файлы для диагностики: https://www.aqua-mail.com/ru/troubleshooting/

Вопросы и ответы: https://www.aqua-mail.com/ru/faq/

mikeone

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Quote
Does this mean agreement -- that "confusing -> where the heck is my message" is worse than "confusing -> why is this message not linked up"?
Kostya:
I agree with your "ranking", of course 🙋

Quote
And yes, it's nice to have a setting for everything.

This -- consider subjects or not -- would mean full reindexing if it's changed. Not very nice.

... too bad  :'(

UPDATE:
... not too bad
    :D
« Last Edit: November 09, 2015, 10:46:57 pm by mikeone »

Kostya Vasilyev

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Re: We already need to reindex when switching on/off conversation

Yes, but in -dev6 this is a full reindex only because I had to change some data structures.

Eventually, in "official release" version, I'll switch back to incremental -- which is much faster, only recomputes the messages "missed" while conversation was off.

A change in subject would need full reindex.
Creating debug logs for diagnostics: https://www.aqua-mail.com/troubleshooting/

The official FAQ: https://www.aqua-mail.com/faq/

Лог-файлы для диагностики: https://www.aqua-mail.com/ru/troubleshooting/

Вопросы и ответы: https://www.aqua-mail.com/ru/faq/

StR

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Re: some mail clients striping a portion at the beginning that ends with a column

colon? ":"?

Don't think it's necessary to be that extreme.

Err. colon and stripping.

My argument above meant to give an example what wouldn't be recognized  by AM as a thread, because a portion of the subject was stripped away.

Re: confusion.

Yes  I see some people "reuse" irrelevant messages for a new message. But similarly,  people do that without changing subject. Both could be annoying,  but you are not going to make the judgement based on the irrelevant content, are you?

IMHO, no matter what you do, people will be confused. ... sometimes even about being confused...
But the app behavior should be consistent: if you determine threads by the message-id, and do not use the subject, do not use the subject for some conditional  decisions, especially since you are bound to have misses with various languages,  combinations of pREfixes with mailing-list-based labels, etc...
E.g.,  Re: {list} Av: {list} НА: subject (fwd)
(Square brackets instead of the curly ones. Had to do it because of the forum limitation. )
And the some of those are removed here and there...
because the conversation participants are with different default languages...
« Last Edit: November 09, 2015, 12:59:48 am by StR »

Kostya Vasilyev

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Languages. I love them, but as a developer, wish everyone used English.

Here in Russia everyone is used to Re and Fwd -- but Hotmail uses localized prefixes.

So when I saw "Отв: test 1" last night ("Отв" - "Ответ" - response, answer as a noun), it almost made me fall under my desk.

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Re: you are not going to make the judgement based on the irrelevant content, are you

Not sure I got that, "irrelevant content"?

Subject is now a relevant factor in message linking logic.

I don't have plans for any additional heuristics based on recipients or dates or anything else.

Partly because of performance, partly because I want to be "done" with it, and finally, the logic needs to be simple enough for me to be able to explain it to users (if they ask).

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And yes, people do "things", and sometimes don't even know it.

Which brings us back to:

The priority right now is to avoid *horribly messing up* the user's inbox to the point where he/she *is unable to find a message*.

StR's comment is excellent: "no matter what you do, people will be confused".

And so, taking this as a given, that it's not going to be "perfect" for everyone's expectations (especially expectations that one isn't even consciously aware of!) -- this is the right thing to do.

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Finally, has anyone actually run into some horrible confusing situation because some messages, with different subjects, didn't get grouped?
Creating debug logs for diagnostics: https://www.aqua-mail.com/troubleshooting/

The official FAQ: https://www.aqua-mail.com/faq/

Лог-файлы для диагностики: https://www.aqua-mail.com/ru/troubleshooting/

Вопросы и ответы: https://www.aqua-mail.com/ru/faq/

StR

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I just installed -6 version and observed several problems with threading.  (I reindexed.)
Back to -4, the problems are gone.
I will describe the problems tomorrow, from the laptop.

Iceman_jkh

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I'm a little late to this discussion, but I wanted to say 'Thank you' - 1.6 fixed my msg grouping issues. :) (I also like the new auto open/hold to open options :) )

I'm not suggesting the dissenting opinions/views on grouping aren't valid however.

I would agree that an option would be optimal, but that's much easier for me to say than for Kostya to implement effectively. Keeping clear logic, control and consistency over the msg grouping display while also protecting AM and some users from themselves (eg: Google Play Review: 'This dumb app can't sort...my msgs are gone! 0 stars.') might be tough. :/

Re: (re)indexing for "Include SUBJECT in Conversation Grouping Criteria: YES/NO". I would expect that once the user decides how they want their grouping, they would leave AM it set that way and not touch it again - let's presume the default is set to ON. Therefore, there sh/would hardly ever be any reindexing beyond the very first time the choice is made. On a side note, is there any chance of including the option as a 'Developer Mode/Advanced Mode' setting? Something that requires a little 'digging' to find - you might even have other options you have been saving up and want somewhere to place them all?

That way, subject grouping can be configured if the user knows what they're doing (and looks hard enough/searches the web), but 90% of the users (eg: average joe) will simply have no problem with it being set to default of ON. Any thoughts?
« Last Edit: November 09, 2015, 12:57:19 pm by Iceman_jkh »

papete

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I have to agree with Paris Geek on this. It seems like 1.4 method is better. I'm not sure under what circumstances the 1.4 method would make a user wonder where his message is (and give a bad rating to the app)

pyler

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Re and Fwd are common here in Slovakia, there are no "localized variants". (Or I have not see it yet).
Do you want to use the latest AquaMail version?
Try AquaMail Updater!

Iceman_jkh

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Dear user,
Are you able to post screenshots (dev1.4 compared to dev1.6) to let us understand the improvement you get with dev1.6? I am not understanding the issue you have faced, since I was not able to reproduce it.

Hopefully this works.

The first message group (6 msgs) (at the bottom) was me sending (CC myself) someone a request (4 msgs total) to quote and them replying (2 msgs total).
The second message group (2 msgs) (in the middle) was them sending to me (1 msg) and me acknowledging receipt (1 msg).
The last message group (7 msgs) (at the top) me sending (CC myself) (2 msgs) and them acknowledging (1 msg) and then me sending (CC myself) more (4 msgs).

A few things to note:
  • I have had to redact a large amount of information in these images, so hopefully you can still follow what's going on.
  • Sender@gmail represents my email address (modified for privacy).
  • The white boxes with numbers are redacted message body content. Where numbers are identical it represents identical content. Why identical content?....Because I have an auto CC/BCC back to the sender@g for all mails sent via this (sender@g) email address. Please note that the numbers are NOT chronological. They simply started at 1 (at the top) and I kept incrementing as necessary as I worked my way down.
  • As you can see, previously (under dev 1.4) the messages were all incorrectly grouped under the wrong header (Drainage...) and wrong date (21 Oct 15)
  • AM dev-1.6 correctly groups these emails into 3 separate conversations (as they should be, and which is also consistent with gmail's grouping style).I can't show an image as it's nearly 1:30am (bedtime!)
  • I use smart folder, slim padding, dark theme, no chips :)

Hopefully that shows you the problem I had.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2015, 05:35:16 pm by Iceman_jkh »

stevealb

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It seems that when you accept an email calendar invite on EWS exchange account, that invite does not move to the deleted folder as it once did. I think conversation view broke that.