Author Topic: Let's discuss: push mail for Exchange  (Read 49170 times)

Kostya Vasilyev

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Let's discuss: push mail for Exchange
« on: January 09, 2015, 04:08:53 pm »
Discussion started on Google+:

https://plus.google.com/111661559774274998746/posts/H729tvNuC14

Short recap:

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Looking at push mail for Exchange. EWS (Exchange Web Services, the license-free protocol used in AquaMail) provides three (3) options. And looks like all of them were carefully designed to have show-stopper deficiencies for mobile app use, pushing (no pun intended) developers towards ActiveSync and its licensing requirements.

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I'm kind of starting to lean towards a cloud based component (web service) that would make EWS push protocol more suitable for  a mobile device. A proxy with some smarts (middleware).

Wonder how many users a basic $25 Linode VPS would be able to support (time to learn Go?). Likely to be more cost effective than an AS license, and about an equal amount of work, but much cleaner as far as actual technology pieces go (later I might think about using this for a more efficient IMAP push, too).

Tradeoffs:

1) I'd need to transmit the user's login / password to this cloud server (but they won't be stored there, as with BlueMail / Cloud Magic / My.com)

2) Exchange 2010, 2013, Office 365, Exchange Online (which is Office 365 without Office proper). At least initially.

This would be for push mail only, the current EWS code would work as it does now, without needing this web service.

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And not to forget: EWS is already there in Aqua, not as feature-full as I or some users would like ("some" because not everyone cares about push mail or even calendar sync) -- but it is there, working, now -- so it's natural to build on that.
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« Last Edit: September 27, 2015, 04:04:03 pm by Kostya Vasilyev, Aqua Mail »
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beerlao

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Re: Let's discuss: push mail for Exchange
« Reply #1 on: January 10, 2015, 08:59:58 pm »
I consider Exchange services as a professional feature. And in a professional environment I consider transmitting my credentials to a cloud service as a showstopper. So that would really stop me from using that feature and I would stick with EWS.

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Kostya Vasilyev

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Re: Let's discuss: push mail for Exchange
« Reply #2 on: January 10, 2015, 09:03:34 pm »
Thank you for your feedback.

I wonder how it works out for apps like MyMail, CloudMagic, BlueMail (and maybe others I'm not aware of).

Users just don't seem to care -- for personal of corporate mail...
« Last Edit: January 10, 2015, 09:29:31 pm by Kostya Vasilyev, Aqua Mail »
Creating debug logs for diagnostics: https://www.aqua-mail.com/troubleshooting/

The official FAQ: https://www.aqua-mail.com/faq/

Лог-файлы для диагностики: https://www.aqua-mail.com/ru/troubleshooting/

Вопросы и ответы: https://www.aqua-mail.com/ru/faq/

Kostya Vasilyev

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Re: Let's discuss: push mail for Exchange
« Reply #3 on: January 10, 2015, 10:12:16 pm »
Those cloud apps 1) store user credentials *persistently* and 2) store actual messages (for a limited time, but you can never tell how quickly they detect when a user deleted his account / uninstalled the app).

You're completely right, it would be an optional capability.

I'm also wondering -- if "a mail app from A Real Company Inc" is perceived differently from "a mail app from some guy (or a gal?) with an unpronounceable name"?

Except there already was a case of MyMail's privacy policy not being very clear about how they're cloud based (supposedly fixed by now) -- and that's a "A Real Company Inc.".

Anyway, I am grateful for feedback here, including of the "not acceptable to me" variety, that's valuable -- and not trying to change anyone's mind -- just thinking aloud :)
Creating debug logs for diagnostics: https://www.aqua-mail.com/troubleshooting/

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Kostya Vasilyev

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Re: Let's discuss: push mail for Exchange
« Reply #4 on: January 11, 2015, 01:08:02 am »
Yes, that's kind of what I'm thinking.

It will optional (unlike in those apps I listed above) and I'll have a popup explanation or a web site page that explains it.
Creating debug logs for diagnostics: https://www.aqua-mail.com/troubleshooting/

The official FAQ: https://www.aqua-mail.com/faq/

Лог-файлы для диагностики: https://www.aqua-mail.com/ru/troubleshooting/

Вопросы и ответы: https://www.aqua-mail.com/ru/faq/

beerlao

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Re: Let's discuss: push mail for Exchange
« Reply #5 on: January 11, 2015, 09:28:03 am »
I believe that it might also relate to your cultural background. I am German and over here we are very concerned about privacy. So other than you said, we distrust big companies even more than a well known and "responsible" developer like you. I personally don't like the cloud hype where I have to share every word document with Microsoft One Drive. And I never bought a nexus, because they don't take SD cards and Google just wants you to store your data in their cloud.

So,  I personally trust you much more than I trust Google or Microsoft, but I would feel most comfortable when I would not have to share sensible data with anyone. Above that, our corporate privacy policy would not allow me to share my credentials with third parties, and of course, the only exchange service I'm using is my corporate exchange mail ;-)

But as I said, your ews implementation works very well for me, so I will keep using Aqua Mail as my favorite mail app :-)

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« Last Edit: January 11, 2015, 10:28:45 am by beerlao »

beerlao

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Re: Let's discuss: push mail for Exchange
« Reply #6 on: January 11, 2015, 10:25:27 am »
Well, to be honest I do not know about the limitations ews implies, but of course features like calendar and contacts integration and maybe switching on and off automatic responses would suit me very well. I'm using nine for the more sophisticated exchange stuff, so actually I'm quite happy with both apps.

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stevealb

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Re: Let's discuss: push mail for Exchange
« Reply #7 on: January 11, 2015, 03:34:07 pm »
I also use AM for most of my exchange email and Nine for the things AM still cannot do, such as opening up a calendar invite and viewing it in the calendar to determine how to respond. Push email is critical for my needs, and right now I have AM set to check email every 3 minutes which uses more battery life. It would also be best if the calendar invite that comes in the email was embedded in the email and not a separate attachment. So, for me, calendar integration is very important. As for cloud based storage, I also am against its use, even temporarily. Having said that, AM is the best email client I have ever used, and would like it to be my sole email client. I appreciate everything Kostya has done and especially appreciate this discussion to see how AM can best meet its users needs.

Bravo Kostya!

NB: I would be willing to pay additional money to have Activesync in AM.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2015, 05:27:44 pm by stevealb »

onlyfor.foren

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Re: Let's discuss: push mail for Exchange
« Reply #8 on: January 12, 2015, 01:04:56 am »
Above that, our corporate privacy policy would not allow me to share my credentials with third parties, and of course, the only exchange service I'm using is my corporate exchange mail ;-)

But as I said, your ews implementation works very well for me, so I will keep using Aqua Mail as my favorite mail app :-)

I agree

lexluthor

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Re: Let's discuss: push mail for Exchange
« Reply #9 on: March 08, 2015, 02:12:43 am »
Just started using Aqua and purchased today.  Very nice app.  Was a bit surprised that there's no push support for Exchange.  I didn't realize there's some licensing involved to MS for that.

I don't see any recent posts on this, but looks like the dev is working on a solution.  Is there some sort of ETA on a solution?

Kostya Vasilyev

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Re: Let's discuss: push mail for Exchange
« Reply #10 on: March 08, 2015, 09:28:26 pm »
If you read the above discussion, the responses to my proposal for implementing push with a cloud component -- are all along the lines of "no, I will not use it, for security / privacy reasons".

And so, why would I work on something that nobody wants to use?

For an example of what happens when you license ActiveSync from MS -- read Play comments for an app called Boxer -- "Why the ... do I need to pay more for Exchange? 1 star!!! Too bad can't rate with zero stars!!! That'd teach them!!!". That's not inspiring either.
Creating debug logs for diagnostics: https://www.aqua-mail.com/troubleshooting/

The official FAQ: https://www.aqua-mail.com/faq/

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lexluthor

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Re: Let's discuss: push mail for Exchange
« Reply #11 on: March 08, 2015, 11:25:14 pm »
Yes, that's kind of what I'm thinking.

It will optional (unlike in those apps I listed above) and I'll have a popup explanation or a web site page that explains it.
Your last post in this thread certainly read to me like you were working on something that would be optional.  Based on your reply to me earlier today, I guess i must have misunderstood this post i quoted.

Kostya Vasilyev

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Re: Let's discuss: push mail for Exchange
« Reply #12 on: March 09, 2015, 12:41:48 am »
Sorry, I should have used "would be" and "would have", not "will be" and "will have".
Creating debug logs for diagnostics: https://www.aqua-mail.com/troubleshooting/

The official FAQ: https://www.aqua-mail.com/faq/

Лог-файлы для диагностики: https://www.aqua-mail.com/ru/troubleshooting/

Вопросы и ответы: https://www.aqua-mail.com/ru/faq/

lexluthor

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Re: Let's discuss: push mail for Exchange
« Reply #13 on: March 09, 2015, 01:21:59 am »
Sorry, I should have used "would be" and "would have", not "will be" and "will have".
Fair enough. Currently i don't need push, so aqua works for me.

horizon

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Re: Let's discuss: push mail for Exchange
« Reply #14 on: March 09, 2015, 09:59:10 pm »
Does Touchdown also store or send/receive password via 3rd party cloud server? I don't think this was ever an issue that was brought up in the past, it seems to be just a recently discovered problem with all new email clients that support exchange.
If not, what is that app doing that's different than other apps you mentioned?

I really like AquaMail's interface, and all the recent additions like customizing the screen, filtering options, multiple accounts are all great improvements, but lack of true exchange support is killing it for me since I rely on constant email communication to do my job. I am trying to migrate from Blackberry.