Author Topic: Clean Master deletes Aqua's inline images (in signatures, for example)  (Read 26072 times)

crashdamage

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Re: Clean Master deletes Aqua's inline images (in signatures, for example)
« Reply #15 on: August 28, 2015, 09:07:11 am »
Going to make a few more points, then I'm willing to give this up if you are...I never intended to get into a long argument...


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3. The side effects of these actions (in 2. above) can occasionally look or sometimes even be positive (albeit, it is not the best or the most elegant solution).
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Side effects?  Such as?  Are you saying there are sometimes fortuitous 'accidents' from using lousy software written with disregard to how Android functions?  Such as task killers, RAM optimizers, cache cleaners, battery savers', etc.

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Here is an example of what I mean by a side effect.
While Clean Master claims that it frees RAM (which in most cases doesn't make sense to do),
Agreed, but it's worse than that.  It's improper operation.

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...it actually kills some apps. By doing that, it frees the CPU in case one or more apps (running in the background) is in the state where it is unnecessarily consuming CPU cycles, slowing down, and it does it before Android own tools get to do that. So, that does feel as a quick relieve from the sluggishness.
It is quite possible that if the user waited for a bit longer, Android would have taken care of it itself, but then, (and because the system is not tuned for the arbitrary combination of the resources and apps installed) in the mean time, you'd have to suffer. So, the relief can be helpful even if it is not an elegant behavior.
It's worse than "not an elegant behavior.". It' teaching Android bad habits.  Android can learn from such conditions and optimize itself to better handle them. But it has to be allowed the chance to do so.  If  an app intervenes and kills processes, the learning/optimization process is broken.  This clearly shows a fundamental lack of knowledge of, or disregard for, basic Android operation by the Cheetah developers.

These links should help.
This article by one of the authors of Android is an excellent explanation of using Process Stats (aka procstats) to track and understand RAM usage by apps over time.
http://android-developers.blogspot.com/2014/01/process-stats-understanding-how-your.html?m=1

For more information on how Android handles multitasking, processes, RAM, etc automatically for you read this post by one of the authors of Android:
http://android-developers.blogspot.com/2010/04/multitasking-android-way.html?m=1

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It is similar to how I sometimes have to kill Firefox or Thunderbird on my Windows system when it accumulates something (memory leaks?) and becomes non-responsive. Yes, I have to restart it (and FF is nice about restoring the windows), but then it runs much faster.
I have never had such problems with Firefox or Thunderbird running Windows or Linux.  Lucky maybe, I dunno.

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cache cleaning and removal of various temporary files (image previews, etc.). Android (at least 4.x version that I've seen) does not do much of "housekeeping" work of that type, and doesn't offer any convenient way. (Yes, you can clean the cache by rebooting and going through the recovery, but is it really needed every time I need to update a behemoth app?
Cache cleaning is rarely needed.  As I've stated many times, cache files are there for a reason, to speed up the system.  Best performance is achieved by leaving cache files alone to do their job.  Deleting cache files only wastes power and CPU cycles rebuilding them.  That cache files become 'corrupted' is a mostly a myth.  Clearing caches does have it's place but it's rare that we actually need to go there.  Some simple research on cache files will back that statement up.  Feel free to do so.  Not my job to do it for you.

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You are changing the focus. Nobody say that the cache is not useful.
But there are situations when you'd benefit from cleaning it nevertheless.

Let me describe it in a different way:
You don't have any fact that demonstrates that cleaning cache in judiciously chosen apps does any harm.
Yes, it removes the benefit of the cache that allows speeding up of the process initial response (start-up). But that's it.

But cleaning cache gives a benefit of freeing up enough space (often as much as 50-100 MB!) to update behemoth apps on a non-rooted device with a relatively small internal storage.
If I don't have enough space to update an app, those extra CPU cycles aren't going to save me.

And it is not "rarely needed", as you wrote above. Some apps (TripAdvisor, my bank's, one of the airline's) do not allow me to use un-updated app (the behavior with which I do not agree in most cases), and they have frequent updates: TripAdvisor has them every two weeks.
You don't need it, - that's fine. But claiming that cleaning cache is universally useless, and even evil, -- is WRONG!

This post kinda wraps up my position regarding clearing cache files.  Please, take a minute to read it, it's not long:

http://androidforums.com/threads/cache-cleaner.923369/#post-7001396

And:
I never said clearing caches did any harm, as in scrambling up the system, causing apps to crash, etc.  I said it was counterproductive.  Usually, it is.  I'll stand by that.

Clearing caches to free up space, well, it's the Fool's gold of making room.  The joy is only temporary.  The gold is not real and neither is the space because the cache files will rebuild.

As for cache clearing, normally - which is the context I was speaking in - being rarely needed, that's true.  I'll stand by that.  In the post linked above I explain that there are rare exceptions, like there are to almost anything in life.  Your bank's poorly designed app (why are so many bank apps crap?) is a good example of an exception. 

If you can show that in normal use there's any need to mess with cache files, I'd like to see it.  Not glowing user testimonials to the wonders of cache clearing, I've alteady said it can sometimes help.  I mean more like something from Android authors.

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5. What information is actually being collected by the companies behind the apps is still unknown but just suspected.
What matters is that information is sent back at all.  Exactly what and how much information is sent only defines the severity of the offense.
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While I would agree with you from the philosophical point of view, the reality we live in is different. That is very unfortunate, and I disagree with that, but we cannot overcome it completely.   If you don't want any information collected, disconnect from the internet, cut your credit cards, stop using all store discount cards. Basically, - go Amish way.

Google, your phone service provider (VZW, AT&T, ...) - all collect and send information about you. Have you stopped using them?

So, there is a fine line that everybody chooses for her-/him-self. For me, that should be an educated decision based on the information, not emotions or fads.
Agreed.  I made my feelings about this plain in this post, among others:

http://androidforums.com/index.php?posts/6926097

The difference with something like Cheetah Mobile vs Google for example, is that Google is pretty upfront about what they're doing, and make available controls allowing opt-out of everything if desired.  Cheetah Mobile, and many other companies, do not.  They're doing things with your data without your knowledge.  That's a big problem.  Please, read this regarding Cheetah Mobile admitting to scamming users.  I missed including it in my original post.  I think you'll find it interesting:

http://forums.androidcentral.com/showthread.php?p=4642716

SD Maid offers an option to clear cache files and to select only certain caches for deletion.
You can choose exactly what you want SD Maid to do.
...
 It does not run in the background, only when used.

From Google Play for SD Maid:
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This app has access to:
<...>
Other
    run at startup
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Isn't that running in the background? It starts before I even need it. That's not what I'd like. Is there an option in the app to disable autorun on startup?
It is optional.  The default is do not run at startup.

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No, my point is that saying that Android developers are the only experts, and they've achieved a system that is working correctly on all possible devices, and that nobody can improve anything on top of that, -- is a wrong argument.
No more, no less.
Where did I say anything resembling that?

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2. Some statements suffer from the so-called survivorship bias (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survivorship_bias). Devices of the well qualified people conducting experiments are usually different from the "mass" devices: These devices are tuned, often working on a different ROM, or at least rooted; frequently high-specs devices. They are different from the run-of-the-mill, small-RAM, locked, unrooted devices with plenty of bloatware. So what is not any help for the former, could provide some relieve to the latter (albeit not the best one).
This has nothing to do with anything in this thread as far as I can tell.  Let me know if I'm wrong.
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Again, I am talking about ALL the threads on android forums referenced by you and some referenced therein.
And again, right or wrong, I fail to see how this is related to this thread.  This thread is not about "survivorship bias" or whether or not you like my posts or those I've linked.  It's supposed to be about the quality - or total lack of it - of software by Cheetah Mobile and others and their reprehensible behavior regarding user privacy.

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Both statements were yours: The absolute and non-negotiable "DO NOT use any task killers, ... cleaners ..." and  "... SD Maid is a far better, more effective cleaner". You don't see the internal contradiction?
I stand by those statements.  Absolutely.

Android since v1.0.  Linux user since 2001.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2015, 03:37:47 pm by crashdamage »
Android since v1.0.  Linux since 2001.

pyler

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Re: Clean Master deletes Aqua's inline images (in signatures, for example)
« Reply #16 on: August 28, 2015, 01:05:36 pm »
SD Maid is a cleaner, not sure if it has task killer functionality, probably not.
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StR

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Re: Clean Master deletes Aqua's inline images (in signatures, for example)
« Reply #17 on: August 28, 2015, 04:45:29 pm »
SD Maid is a cleaner, not sure if it has task killer functionality, probably not.
That's easy to see in Google Play. The permissions listed for it include "close other apps".

pyler

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Re: Clean Master deletes Aqua's inline images (in signatures, for example)
« Reply #18 on: August 29, 2015, 09:21:23 pm »
What a bad news!

Cheetah Mobile bought QuickPic app :( if they screw it up/reworked it  in their "app style", I would have to find new Gallery app or use last good version.

Kostya, please clone yourself and do as great Gallery app as possible. AquaMail-like level is OK.
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crashdamage

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Re: Clean Master deletes Aqua's inline images (in signatures, for example)
« Reply #19 on: August 29, 2015, 11:54:31 pm »
I noticed this a few days ago too.  No doubt Cheetah Mobile will soon give it some CM 'improvements'.  Their CEO said that CM is not a software company, they are a data information company. That's not good. 

Friggin' shame. I and many, many other used QuickPic for years.  It was a fine app.  I've uninstalled and I'm using Google Photos for now while I look for a good replacement.
Android since v1.0.  Linux since 2001.

StR

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Re: Clean Master deletes Aqua's inline images (in signatures, for example)
« Reply #20 on: August 29, 2015, 11:58:48 pm »
What a bad news!

Cheetah Mobile bought QuickPic app :( if they screw it up/reworked it  in their "app style", I would have to find new Gallery app or use last good version.

Kostya, please clone yourself and do as great Gallery app as possible. AquaMail-like level is OK.

Pyler,
Thanks for the heads-up.
It probably means that I am not updating QuickPic app beyond the current 4.5.2.


Kostya Vasilyev

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Re: Clean Master deletes Aqua's inline images (in signatures, for example)
« Reply #21 on: August 30, 2015, 01:15:49 am »
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Cheetah Mobile bought QuickPic app :( if they screw it up/reworked it  in their "app style", I would have to find new Gallery app or use last good version.

So my image resizing is just on time.

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Kostya, please clone yourself and do as great Gallery app as possible. AquaMail-like level is OK.

Hehe. Please send the tools for DNA cloning, I'll email you my home address. FedEx is OK :)
Creating debug logs for diagnostics: https://www.aqua-mail.com/troubleshooting/

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Лог-файлы для диагностики: https://www.aqua-mail.com/ru/troubleshooting/

Вопросы и ответы: https://www.aqua-mail.com/ru/faq/

pyler

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Re: Clean Master deletes Aqua's inline images (in signatures, for example)
« Reply #22 on: August 30, 2015, 12:58:50 pm »
dd if=/earth/people/kostya of=/earth/people/new_kostya bs=4096 conv=noerror,sync

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StR

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Re: Clean Master deletes Aqua's inline images (in signatures, for example)
« Reply #23 on: August 30, 2015, 09:43:35 pm »
dd if=/earth/people/kostya of=/earth/people/new_kostya bs=4096 conv=noerror,sync

That much of BS? ;)

pyler

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Re: Clean Master deletes Aqua's inline images (in signatures, for example)
« Reply #24 on: August 30, 2015, 10:40:26 pm »
We need him asap :D
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Kostya Vasilyev

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Re: Clean Master deletes Aqua's inline images (in signatures, for example)
« Reply #25 on: August 31, 2015, 08:24:07 pm »
conv=noerror

???

So we're ignoring read errors?

Isn't that dangerous when copying DNA code?
Creating debug logs for diagnostics: https://www.aqua-mail.com/troubleshooting/

The official FAQ: https://www.aqua-mail.com/faq/

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ZenoSloim

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Re: Clean Master deletes Aqua's inline images (in signatures, for example)
« Reply #26 on: August 31, 2015, 11:36:34 pm »
Rhythm Software = Cheetah Mobile = Clean Master

all their products sucks bad, both from security point of view, as functional.
Since 1 year ago I help a friend to restore his iGO navigation software, screwed by CleanMaster, by deleting component files.
IMHO SD Maid is the best app for cleaning. Clean, never failed to screw installed apps and green from security point of view.
Working as a security consultant, I test thousands of Android apps (should I make a joke, all that was "published" on 4pda and Mobilism, was deeply checked by me :) ).
Same thing goes for all products from another chinese company GO: just hammer your firewall "crying" for various chinese IPs.
What more should I say: AVOID their products.