Author Topic: Spanish  (Read 57481 times)

julio66

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 70
Re: Spanish
« Reply #45 on: February 27, 2016, 04:17:19 pm »
Julio, first of all, -both Paris Geek and I were requesting the expertise of a native speaker. So, there is no reason to be fuming... :)


Having carefully read your explanation I am confused, and have two questions for you.

As far as I understand, you wrote:
Quote
... on some public forma we have here in my country, it says "Acuse de recibo" which correctly translated to English is "Confirm that you have read it"
So, you mean that it is correct to use "Acuse de recibo" for "Read Receipt".


But everywhere where I can see (in Spanish), "Acuse de recibo" term is explained as a confirmation of receiving, not reading.
Examples: https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acuse_de_recibo 
http://www.definicionabc.com/comunicacion/acuse-de-recibo.php
(And I have seen at many more just now once again.)


Quote
... and also say that you are wrong regarding the use of the word LECTURA.
...
The word LECTURA is NEVER used in cases like this...

If you search for "Confirmaciones de lectura", you'll find many pages showing that expression as a term for exactly what we are discussing here.
Google/Gmail support pages in Spanish:
https://support.google.com/a/answer/1385059?hl=es
https://support.google.com/a/answer/1383374?hl=es
Microsoft:
http://windows.microsoft.com/es-es/windows-vista/change-windows-mail-receipts-settings
Cnet (Spanish version) describing a feature in WhatsApp:
http://www.cnet.com/es/como-se-hace/como-quitar-palomitas-azules-whatsapp-ios-8/
And WhatsApp itself:
https://www.whatsapp.com/faq/es/android/23225461
....
While I could have easily admitted that one of these tech companies made a mistake by using some automated translator, I doubt that all of them followed that route, especially since it's very easy to find a Spanish native speaker in the US. Why none of millions of Spanish-speaking users of Gmail, and WhatsApp have never complained to Google, MS and WhatsApp about this "wrong" usage of the term?

I don't know if some regional variations play a role here (Spain vs Mexico vs South America), but
I am confused by your "NEVER".
I guess, it might be possible that it's a technical jargon that is based on broken Spanish (as sometimes one can find common computer terms based on incorrect English)...

Would you mind helping to resolve my confusion?

Thank you in advance!

------------------------------------


PS. Having re-read your message multiple times, I am thinking if there is some misunderstanding, so, just in case let me summarize what Paris Geek and I meant.
There were these strings, in which "recibo" was used for "read receipt" (not "delivery receipt"). Paris Geek has pointed out this discrepancy, and I have agreed:
"568:    <string name="new_message_menu_read_receipt">Acuse de recibo</string>
569:    <string name="new_message_read_receipt_prompt">Acuse de recibo requerido</string>

res/values-pt/strings_new_message.xml
39:    <string name="new_message_menu_delivery_receipt">Solicitar recibo de entrega</string>
40:    <string name="new_message_delivery_receipt_prompt">Solicitar recibo de entrega</string>

res/values-pt/strings_account_options.xml
45:    <string name="account_options_prefs_new_request_receipt">Solicitar recibo</string>
46:    <string name="account_options_prefs_new_request_receipt_summary">Definir \"pedido de recibo\" por defeito</string>

Originals (English):

    <string name="account_options_prefs_new_request_receipt">Request read receipt</string>
    <string name="account_options_prefs_new_request_receipt_summary">Request read receipt by default</string>
Quote
568:    <string name="new_message_menu_read_receipt">Acuse de recibo</string>
569:    <string name="new_message_read_receipt_prompt">Acuse de recibo requerido</string>


res/values-pt/strings_account_options.xml
45:    <string name="account_options_prefs_new_request_receipt">Solicitar recibo</string>
46:    <string name="account_options_prefs_new_request_receipt_summary">Definir \"pedido de recibo\" por defeito</string>

Originals (English):

    <string name="account_options_prefs_new_request_receipt">Request read receipt</string>
    <string name="account_options_prefs_new_request_receipt_summary">Request read receipt by default</string>

Are you talking about these strings while saying: "The translations in the spanish version of Aquamail and these two strings discussed, read and delivery receipt ARE CORRECT"?

First of all...it is NOT my intention sounding agitated or "fuming" as you call it....only trying to say exactly what you point out different places in your "story" above....
1. There is a HUGE different in spanish from Spain and Latin American spanish. You even find people who have problems understanding spanish castellano and thats why I in ALL apps I have/am translating underline that this is SPANISH LA (latin american spanish, many also say Spanish US), and you have to remember you will even find spanish talking people in Spain saying that they don't understand much of our spanish and therefore also would say that many words would be incorrect or even used wrong.
2. ...there is thousands of words you can't even find in either Google translate, Wikipedia or whatever translating aid online regarding technical terms and words. This is the reason dictionary for these words cost about $200US in a bookshop (which is required in my country in the university with an education as either computer technician or engineer.
3. Regarding "correction" of already published apk apps in Google Play, you have about 90% which has writing/translation mistakes, and believe me or not...you VERY RARLY find people with either time or interes for correcting the publisher/developer. If you are one of these people having a lot of time to spend online...find some apps....any for that matter...check the translations (best examples are browsers) and check if you find ANY COMMENTS AT ALL from the users saying anything about the wrong/bad translations....Good luck ;-)

And now....without offending anyone...I have unfortunately NEVER time enough to spend online so I will for my part finish this discussion and wish you all a VERY HAPPY WEEKEND.

StR

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1558
Re: Spanish
« Reply #46 on: February 28, 2016, 07:40:42 am »
Julio: thank you, and you too, have a nice weekend!


@Kostya:
Based on the fact that Google/Gmail, Microsoft and WhatsApp are using "Confirmaciones de lectura" term in their applications, I think it would be save to do the same.
(Compare Spanish and English versions -- (just the titles) of this support page: https://support.google.com/a/answer/1385059?hl=es and https://support.google.com/a/answer/1385059?hl=en
And from MS:
https://support.office.com/es-es/article/Obtener-las-confirmaciones-de-entrega-y-de-lectura-a34bf70a-4c2c-4461-b2a1-12e4a7a92141?ui=es-ES&rs=es-ES&ad=ES
https://support.office.com/en-us/article/Get-delivery-and-read-receipt-confirmations-a34bf70a-4c2c-4461-b2a1-12e4a7a92141 )

res/values-es/strings.xml
568:    <string name="new_message_menu_read_receipt">Confirmaciones de lectura</string>
569:    <string name="new_message_read_receipt_prompt">Confirmaciones de lectura solicitado</string>

I believe, this is also acceptable:
569:    <string name="new_message_read_receipt_prompt">Confirmaciones de lectura pedido</string>

Note that the previously used "requirido" in the second of this strings is also not quite correct: it means "required", not "requested" in the meaning equivalent to "asked".
I suspect the person who did that translation misunderstood the meaning of the word "requested" (as "required").



PS.
Just in case, - the other strings that you posted that contained "recibo" are in Portuguese:
res/values-pt/strings_new_message.xml
39:    <string name="new_message_menu_delivery_receipt">Solicitar recibo de entrega</string>
40:    <string name="new_message_delivery_receipt_prompt">Solicitar recibo de entrega</string>

res/values-pt/strings_account_options.xml
45:    <string name="account_options_prefs_new_request_receipt">Solicitar recibo</string>
46:    <string name="account_options_prefs_new_request_receipt_summary">Definir \"pedido de recibo\" por defeito</string>


Kostya Vasilyev

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12743
Re: Spanish
« Reply #47 on: February 28, 2016, 06:21:03 pm »
Oh my, I really really hate these discussions -- because I don't speak Spanish (or French or Arabic).

But I did look at Gmail and Outlook help pages (thank you StR).

@Julio -- both Gmail and Outlook use "lectura", can you comment on that?
Creating debug logs for diagnostics: https://www.aqua-mail.com/troubleshooting/

The official FAQ: https://www.aqua-mail.com/faq/

Лог-файлы для диагностики: https://www.aqua-mail.com/ru/troubleshooting/

Вопросы и ответы: https://www.aqua-mail.com/ru/faq/

mikeone

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2671
Re: Spanish
« Reply #48 on: February 28, 2016, 11:15:02 pm »
Oh my, I really really hate these discussions -- because I don't speak Spanish (or French or Arabic).

But I did look at Gmail and Outlook help pages (thank you StR).

@Julio -- both Gmail and Outlook use "lectura", can you comment on that?
read receipt:
"confirmación de lectura" or "recibo de lectura"

request a read receipt:
"solicitar un recibo de lectura"

delivery receipt:
"confirmación de entrega" or "recibo de entrega"

« Last Edit: February 28, 2016, 11:33:05 pm by mikeone »

julio66

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 70
Re: Spanish
« Reply #49 on: February 29, 2016, 06:23:55 am »
Oh my, I really really hate these discussions -- because I don't speak Spanish (or French or Arabic).

But I did look at Gmail and Outlook help pages (thank you StR).

@Julio -- both Gmail and Outlook use "lectura", can you comment on that?

Please Kostya...do it more easy than ANY.....let these people get their own language setting as SPANISH Castellano (Spain) and let us here in America have our Spanish Latin American like this.
And just to comment for the fourth time; Latin American Spanish IS NOT THE SAME AS Spanish from Spain which is what Google use for translation engine online. And for Microsoft (and Google) have to kind of Spanish versions of ALL THEIR PRODUCTS: Spanish LA and Spanish ES...and check out for example your Android version, when set to Spanish LA and Spanish ES.....look at the difference of words. Again I say this Kostya...put in Spamish ES for these people to use (they really look eager to change to the spanish version of Aguamail, and then just leave the Spanish LA version lile it is....and especially since we here DONT use the word LECTURA in this sense....BUT the people from Spain yes....
Ps! Just to give a small lesson for today: it has for almost 15 years now been discussed how "unfear" it is to let the Spanish for Spain be the "registered "world-language" (together with French and English) hence also used by everyone as the "correct" Spanish (Dictionary, Softwares, Instructions etc etc)
. Imagine...South America has 397 million people, Central America and Caribbean has 527 million people.... all (except for Brasil off course) using LATIN AMERICAN SPANISH...compared to  47 million Spanish people (from Spain) using their version.....if you ask me; Not fear....
But lucky for us in this part of the world...Microsoft, Google, Apple and all other important software companies are FINALLY offering 2 Spanish languaged versions....Spanish ES and Spanish LA.
« Last Edit: February 29, 2016, 06:40:25 am by julio66 »

mikeone

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2671
Re: Spanish
« Reply #50 on: February 29, 2016, 09:14:10 am »
@Julio66
Thanks for clarification. Now the discussion makes sense: You are talking about "Latin American - Spanish" not about the origin "Spanish" which is one of the official languages of the European Union (EU) and one of the six official languages of the United Nations (UN).

However, in my opinion the user who selects Spanish indeed expected the origin "ES - Spanish" but not really a language variation like Latin American Spanish or Mexican Spanish or from any other of the Spanish-speaking regions of the world.
« Last Edit: February 29, 2016, 09:38:13 am by mikeone »

StR

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1558
Re: Spanish
« Reply #51 on: February 29, 2016, 09:28:45 am »
       "What I said was, 'Is anybody at home?'" called out Pooh very loudly.
       "No!" said a voice; and then added, "You needn't shout so loud..."
 ;D
« Last Edit: February 29, 2016, 09:30:50 am by StR »

mikeone

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2671
Re: Spanish
« Reply #52 on: February 29, 2016, 09:54:01 am »
I am an Android user, owning a Galaxy Note 5. Where do I select Columbian-Castellano, or Chilian-Castellano in my device settings? I suppose that all Spanish (actually Castellano) users are currently using Official Castellano.
I'm using a Sony Xperia Z3 and there are 20 (twenty!) variations of Español languages, oh my...

mikeone

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2671
Re: Spanish
« Reply #53 on: February 29, 2016, 11:17:38 am »
@Mikeone: I don't speak German, but I was said that the spoken language near the French border (Black Forest) is somehow different from the one spoken in Hamburg. Is this true?
Yes, that's absolutely correct. But these are different dialects within the same country.

However, julio66 is talking about language variations between different countries, like:

• Portugues [Portugal] <> Portuguese [Brasil]
• Français [France] <> Français [Belgique] <> Français [Canada] <> Français [Suisse]
• English [United Kingdom] <> English [United States]

Therefore Julio's comments are certainly helpful.

StR

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1558
Re: Spanish
« Reply #54 on: February 29, 2016, 11:23:12 am »
Hi @StR, do you speak European or Latin American Spanish? Have you checked Outlook Es-La / Es-Eu to see the differences?
Which Latin American Spanish? Latin American - Mexico City or Latin American - BsAs?
"The difference between the Latin American Spanish spoken in Mexico City and Latin American Spanish in Buenos Aires can be significant. It is probably as great as between Buenos Aires and Madrid or between Mexico City and Madrid." Source: http://www.trustedtranslations.com/spanish-language/translation/latin-american-spanish.asp
 8)


Mil disculpas que no hablo Español. ;)

But I do not know any version of Spanish in which "recibo" would mean "read".
So, whoever translated "read receipt" as "Acuse de recibo" does not understand what English "read receipt" is.
"Acuse de recibo" would not mean "acknowledgment of reading", but rather "acknowledgment of receiving". (The meaning is very close to "Acuse de entraga"="acknowledgment of delivery")


Now, the question is: What is correct (for "read receipt", i.e. acknowledgment of reading)?
So far, there are two versions on the table.
"Confirmaciones de lectura" (as used by Google, MS, WhatsApp, ..) and
"Acuse de leido" as suggested by Julio.

From what I understand, the biggest objection by Julio is about the word "lectura".
Since his claim is about the numbers (more people speak es-la [Latin America] than es-es [Spain]), let's do some numbers.
Google search for "acuse de leido" (use the quotation marks to search for the entire phrase!) gives "about 1420 results". https://goo.gl/YptCYf
The same for "acuse de lectura" gives "about 62,200 results". https://goo.gl/0m2syB
"Confirmación de lectura" gets about 166,000 results. https://goo.gl/OqqwH8
(For completeness: "confirmación de leido" gets just 1,880 results)

And one of the first links when you search for "acuse de lectura" (2nd for me, but it can be different for others), is to a website in Argentina, "La Nacion" (a major daily newspaper in Argentina.)
http://www.lanacion.com.ar/1480420-como-chatear-desde-el-celular-y-saber-que-el-otro-leyo-el-mensaje
Es lógico que la mayor parte de la gente tomara ese signo como un acuse de lectura (que no es) y no de recibo (que es lo que informa)... (Crude translation: It is logical that most people take that sign as an acknowledgment of reading (which is not) and not receipt (which is what informs)...)

And, while we are reading that article, further down, there is this sentence: Pero no ofrece la muy conveniente confirmación de lectura.
(The article actually uses the word leido to describe that the message is read, just not in combination with "acuse" or "confirmación".)

So, a major Latin American newspaper uses both "acuse de lectura" an "confirmación de lectura".
And Google shows that "de lectura" is winning by several orders of magnitude!

I rest my case.
 8)

PS. It's noteworthy that "acuse de recibo" (479,000) wins over "confirmación de recibo" (122,000) in Google by a factor of ~4, and less than by a factor of ~1.5-1.6 over both "acuse de entrega" (295,000) and "confirmacion de entrega" (322,000).
« Last Edit: February 29, 2016, 11:26:27 am by StR »

Kostya Vasilyev

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12743
Re: Spanish
« Reply #55 on: March 01, 2016, 06:00:10 pm »
That's pretty convincing.

I am going to make the following changes, anyone want to confirm / proofread?

These are account options ("Request read receipt by default"):

-    <string name="account_options_prefs_new_request_receipt">Acuse de recibo</string>
-    <string name="account_options_prefs_new_request_receipt_summary">Establecer \"Acuse de recibo\" por defecto</string>
+    <string name="account_options_prefs_new_request_receipt">Confirmaciones de lectura</string>
+    <string name="account_options_prefs_new_request_receipt_summary">Establecer \"Confirmaciones de lectura\" por defecto</string>

And these are for the compose screen (the menu item and the info panel):

-    <string name="new_message_menu_read_receipt">Acuse de recibo</string>
-    <string name="new_message_read_receipt_prompt">Acuse de recibo requerido</string>
+    <string name="new_message_menu_read_receipt">Confirmaciones de lectura</string>
+    <string name="new_message_read_receipt_prompt">Confirmaciones de lectura requerido</string>

@julio66 -- hope you don't get mad at me :)
Creating debug logs for diagnostics: https://www.aqua-mail.com/troubleshooting/

The official FAQ: https://www.aqua-mail.com/faq/

Лог-файлы для диагностики: https://www.aqua-mail.com/ru/troubleshooting/

Вопросы и ответы: https://www.aqua-mail.com/ru/faq/

StR

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1558
Re: Spanish
« Reply #56 on: March 01, 2016, 11:13:59 pm »
-    <string name="account_options_prefs_new_request_receipt">Acuse de recibo</string>
-    <string name="account_options_prefs_new_request_receipt_summary">Establecer \"Acuse de recibo\" por defecto</string>
+    <string name="account_options_prefs_new_request_receipt">Confirmaciónes de lectura</string>
+    <string name="account_options_prefs_new_request_receipt_summary">Establecer \"Confirmaciónes de lectura\" por defecto</string>

Sorry, previously I had copied the plural (from that Google Support page "Read receipts"), without making it singular.

Moreover, - I just looked at the original English string:
Quote
Originals (English):
    <string name="account_options_prefs_new_request_receipt">Request read receipt</string>
    <string name="account_options_prefs_new_request_receipt_summary">Request read receipt by default</string>

To match it more close, I think it should be (see the quote below):
+    <string name="account_options_prefs_new_request_receipt">Solicitar confirmación de lectura</string>
+    <string name="account_options_prefs_new_request_receipt_summary">Solicitar confirmación de lectura por defecto</string>


The previous version was essentially "Establish (or set) ``Read Receipt'' by default".


Quote
And these are for the compose screen (the menu item and the info panel):

-    <string name="new_message_menu_read_receipt">Acuse de recibo</string>
-    <string name="new_message_read_receipt_prompt">Acuse de recibo requerido</string>
+    <string name="new_message_menu_read_receipt">Confirmaciónes de lectura</string>
+    <string name="new_message_read_receipt_prompt">Confirmaciónes de lectura requerido solicitado</string>

In all that smoke, this comment may have gone under the radar:
...
Note that the previously used "requirido" in the second of this strings is also not quite correct: it means "required", not "requested" in the meaning equivalent to "asked".
I suspect the person who did that translation misunderstood the meaning of the word "requested" (as "required").

Google in its support page quoted previously,
https://support.google.com/a/answer/1385059?hl=es , uses the verb "solicitar" for "request" (a receipt). So, "solicitado" should be the correct verb for "requested".

And just in case that page is still considered Spanish from Spain, here is an article for US Spanish (Texas, or rather Tejas, is as Spanish as it gets ;) ):
http://pyme.lavoztx.com/cmo-comprobar-si-un-correo-de-gmail-ha-sido-ledo-6411.html
This article describes how to request a "Read Receipt" in Gmail. And the steps 2 and 3 use:
 "Solicitar confirmación de lectura". So, "solicitado" should be OK with at least some parts of Hispanoamérica.


So, with clean formatting:
+    <string name="new_message_menu_read_receipt">Confirmación de lectura</string>
+    <string name="new_message_read_receipt_prompt">Confirmación de lectura solicitado</string>

+    <string name="account_options_prefs_new_request_receipt">Solicitar confirmación de lectura</string>
+    <string name="account_options_prefs_new_request_receipt_summary">Solicitar confirmación de lectura por defecto</string>

HTH.
I hope I didn't introduce any new errors. ;)


Kostya Vasilyev

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12743
Re: Spanish
« Reply #57 on: March 01, 2016, 11:24:19 pm »
Re: So, with clean formatting:

Thank you!
Creating debug logs for diagnostics: https://www.aqua-mail.com/troubleshooting/

The official FAQ: https://www.aqua-mail.com/faq/

Лог-файлы для диагностики: https://www.aqua-mail.com/ru/troubleshooting/

Вопросы и ответы: https://www.aqua-mail.com/ru/faq/

Kostya Vasilyev

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12743
Re: Spanish
« Reply #58 on: March 11, 2016, 01:16:09 am »
<!-- strings_prefs.xml -->

<string name="prefs_ui_main_show_total_counts">Per-folder \"total\" message counts</string>
<string name="prefs_ui_main_show_total_counts_always">Always</string>
<string name="prefs_ui_main_show_total_counts_never">Never</string>
<string name="prefs_ui_main_show_total_counts_auto">Auto (depending on available width)</string>
Creating debug logs for diagnostics: https://www.aqua-mail.com/troubleshooting/

The official FAQ: https://www.aqua-mail.com/faq/

Лог-файлы для диагностики: https://www.aqua-mail.com/ru/troubleshooting/

Вопросы и ответы: https://www.aqua-mail.com/ru/faq/

StR

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1558
Re: Spanish
« Reply #59 on: March 11, 2016, 08:31:33 pm »
<!-- strings_prefs.xml -->

<string name="prefs_ui_main_show_total_counts">Número total de mensajes por carpeta</string>
<string name="prefs_ui_main_show_total_counts_always">Siempre</string>
<string name="prefs_ui_main_show_total_counts_never">Nunca</string>
<string name="prefs_ui_main_show_total_counts_auto">Automático (dependiendo del ancho disponible)</string>

or (if we go with "Display total count of messages per folder" -- see my comment in the "Builds" forum)
<string name="prefs_ui_main_show_total_counts">Mostrar el número total de mensajes por carpeta</string>
« Last Edit: March 11, 2016, 08:43:31 pm by StR »