Author Topic: German  (Read 331611 times)

nica

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Re: German
« Reply #285 on: December 19, 2015, 12:13:05 am »
( I did not actually add "Ja, ja!" would this be a good idea? )

Definetely no. ;)

May I revive the discussion about "Smart Folder"? "Smart" is a term, which is a commonly used in german language, but "folder" is not.

Usually this term is translated to "Intelligenter Ordner". Compare to other software by Apple, Microsoft Outlook and Mozilla Firefox (> Smart Bookmark Folder).

So we would have an appropriate expression, additionally it makes clear, that it's not a static folder.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2015, 12:44:39 am by nica »

mikeone

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Re: German
« Reply #286 on: December 19, 2015, 01:10:38 am »
( I did not actually add "Ja, ja!" would this be a good idea? )

Definetely no. ;)

May I revive the discussion about "Smart Folder"? "Smart" is a term, which is a commonly used in german language, but "folder" is not.

Usually this term is translated to "Intelligenter Ordner". Compare to other software by Apple, Microsoft Outlook and Mozilla Firefox (> Smart Bookmark Folder).

So we would have an appropriate expression, additionally it makes clear, that it's not a static folder.
Accordingly, we are in a time warp and going back to February 26th, 2014:

https://www.aqua-mail.com/forum/index.php?topic=2214.msg9032#msg9032

nica

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Re: German
« Reply #287 on: December 19, 2015, 01:13:07 am »
Yes. That's why I asked for "revive"... ;)

mikeone

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Re: German
« Reply #288 on: December 19, 2015, 01:26:23 am »
But as far as I know there was not a single hint of confusion since then.

mikeone

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Re: German
« Reply #289 on: December 20, 2015, 12:41:38 am »
German translations for 1.6.0. 4-3

New strings:

<string name="prefs_ui_webview_html_wrap"> Formatierten Text umbrechen</string>
<string name="prefs_ui_webview_html_wrap_summary">Versuche formatierten (HTML) Text umzubrechen</string>

Kostya Vasilyev

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Re: German
« Reply #290 on: December 20, 2015, 01:35:03 am »
Thanks!
Creating debug logs for diagnostics: https://www.aqua-mail.com/troubleshooting/

The official FAQ: https://www.aqua-mail.com/faq/

Лог-файлы для диагностики: https://www.aqua-mail.com/ru/troubleshooting/

Вопросы и ответы: https://www.aqua-mail.com/ru/faq/

nica

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Re: German
« Reply #291 on: December 20, 2015, 02:10:54 am »
Another suggestion:

New string:

<string name="prefs_ui_webview_html_wrap_summary">Es wird versucht, formatierten (HTML-)Text zu umbrechen</string>

(Reason for this suggestion:
Avoiding 1st person in german strings)

mikeone

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Re: German
« Reply #292 on: December 20, 2015, 02:44:33 pm »
Another suggestion:

New string:

<string name="prefs_ui_webview_html_wrap_summary">Es wird versucht, formatierten (HTML-)Text zu umbrechen</string>

(Reason for this suggestion:
Avoiding 1st person in german strings)
Actually, it is imperative 2nd person which is consistently preferred in AquaMail's strings (English,  German,... and other languages)
> see screenshots - just as examples

However, thanks for your suggestion.   :)

nica

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Re: German
« Reply #293 on: December 20, 2015, 05:02:12 pm »
Actually, it is imperative 2nd person which is consistently preferred in AquaMail's strings (English,  German,... and other languages)

Thank you for response, but I don't agree.  ;) Some aspects:

a) Your suggested string "Versuche formatierten (HTML) Text umzubrechen" is NOT requesting the user (2nd person) to do something. It's definetely a description of what the app will do (1st person).

b) So it was described in english in 1st person (which is most of the times the same term as 2nd person).

c) In english language it's a common way to go, of course. Other languages I don't know.

d) In softwares texts in german language usually the translation avoids both 1st person and avoids addressing the user personally (2nd person).
Generally it is tried to be "neutral" and have the action verb at the end of the string. (Exception: String's getting too long, then try to put the action verb at first).

This applies especially to business software. Since some years some "hip" and messenger-like software (apps) tried to break this way, they address the user directly.

e) What we find in AquaMail actually is an inconsistent mixture of all. ;) You will find:
- "neutral" terms
- "1st person" description/summaries

See these 6 items in screenshot:
- Each of them show "neutral" way in header

In summaries:
- item no. 4 and 5 is written in "neutral" description with action verb at the end. (This is as it should be from my opinion)
- item no 2, 3 and 6 shows "1st person"-description
- item no 1 - hey ;) - You see  another new way to go: "3rd person" description.

You will find other examples of course.

But I know (and realize here), that raising existing and current work of others is always a very sensitive thing. So I will not complain, leave it as it is. It seems to work for the users.

« Last Edit: December 20, 2015, 05:04:32 pm by nica »

mikeone

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Re: German
« Reply #294 on: December 20, 2015, 05:39:33 pm »
Yes. That's why I asked for "revive"... ;)
@nica:

Additionally to the previous posts in this thread about a usefully translation for the term 'Smart Folder' I would like to share some more thoughts from my side.

In my opinion there is no need to translate every single word, especially for technical terms.

A few examples you will find currently in AquaMail's Settings section (... I guess not only in the German localization):

Login, Server, Port, WiFi, Mailserver, IMAP Push, Expunge(*), Message ID, Auto-sync, Navigation Drawer(*), Floating context bar(*), App, Spam, Icon, Button, Inbox, Account, ... and lastly 'Smart Folder'.

Already the German translation "Swiping"(*) > "Wischfunktionen" is rather unfortunate to my taste - but even better than just the word "Wischen" which implies something like "Cleaning" in German language or the word "Streichen" (could be "cancel/delete" or "paint").

(*) maybe you could find meaningful and understandable German translations for these specific terms:
> your suggestions are very welcome.
... However, please keep in mind that the settings screens needs phrases as short as possible :-)


AquaMail's smart and unique implementation of that "combined" smart folder deserves to be named as it is currently:  'Smart Folder'.

Especially in the German translation, since for Germans a Smartphone is just a Smartphone... not a "Intelligentes Telefon".


In summary:
In my (personal) opinion 'Smart Folder' is a technical term which renames a unique feature of AquaMail and therefore requires not necessarily a translation
« Last Edit: December 20, 2015, 06:42:11 pm by mikeone »

nica

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Re: German
« Reply #295 on: December 20, 2015, 06:23:24 pm »
In my opinion there is no need to translate every single word, especially for technical terms.
In general, I agree with you.

But be aware, that your list of examples ...

Quote
Login, Server , Port , WiFi, Mailserver, IMAP Push, Expunge(*),  Message ID, Auto-sync, Navigation Drawer(*), Floating context bar(*), App, Spam, Icon, Button, Inbox, Account, ... and lastly 'Smart Folder'.

... contains some terms, whch are usually translated in most other software, even "Login".

E.g. " Floating (..) bar" is translated in most other apps.

Another aspect: Which group of users is the target?
Also the list contains terms, which are not used by users, who don't have technical background and who will be happy, if the app does the configuration by itself after having selected the mail provider.

When translating I usually ask some friends of me (including my wife ;)) to get different perspectives. I asked  - in german of course ;) -  two friends and my wife: "In  mail app: What do you consider to be a Smart Folder?" They did not have an idea.

Then I asked what a "Intelligenter Ordner" could be. Immediately they had associations in direction of: It contains important/selected or similar mails, and the app does it for me. So I saw an occasion to raise the last discussion abbout that term.

Another aspect:
Always look what other software provider are doing - how do they deal with a term?

Examples::
Apple:
OS X Yosemite: Create or modify a Smart Folder
OS X Yosemite: Erstellen oder Ändern eines intelligenten Ordners

Microsoft (Outlook)
Save a search by using a Smart Folder - Outlook
Speichern einer Suche mithilfe eines intelligenten Ordners - Outlook for Mac

Similar way for Mozilla (Firefox bookmarks). However, Mozilla Thunderbird uses terms like "Gruppierte Ordner" and "Virtuelle Ordner" which are not very easy to understand for beginners.

Quote
Especially in the German translation, since for Germans a Smartphone is just a Smartphone... not a "Intelligentes Telefon".

No, usually it's just a "Handy" :):):) (Just kidding)

Quote
In summary:
In my (personal) opinion 'Smart Folder' is a technical term which renames a unique feature of AquaMail and therefore requires not necessarily a translation.
Ok, no problem for me. Now I will end up the discussion.

Enjoy the sunday evening. :)

mikeone

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Re: German
« Reply #296 on: December 20, 2015, 06:39:52 pm »
Quote
See these 6 items in screenshot:
- Each of them show "neutral" way in header

In summaries:
- item no. 4 and 5 is written in "neutral" description with action verb at the end. (This is as it should be from my opinion)
- item no 2, 3 and 6 shows "1st person"-description
- item no 1 - hey ;) - You see  another new way to go: "3rd person" description.
Hi Nica ,
Thanks for your response and you can be sure the discussion about the translations are very much appreciate.

Attached you will find "your" screenshot with the original English wording (version 1.6.0.4-3) and in my opinion) no. 1 - Enable, 2 - Shrink, 3 (new) - Try, 4 + 5 (former 3 + 4) - Show, and 7 (former 6) - Enable, are ALL showing "2nd person" (du / you: the app should do something), not the user (who would be the "1st person" - ich / me: the user has to do sth.). My view is from the user's perspective.

Kostya's original wording should be reflected as far as possible. This was and should be continue to be the goal.

Kindest regards
Mike
« Last Edit: December 20, 2015, 08:44:13 pm by mikeone »

Kostya Vasilyev

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Re: German
« Reply #297 on: December 20, 2015, 07:00:29 pm »
Um, actually maybe Smart Folder should be translated.

The examples above (Outlook, OS X) are telling, and then Smart Folder is not really on par with such established terms as WiFi, IMAP, etc.

( it would be silly to translate IMAP, or WiFi... maybe Push should be translated though, I'm not sure, it's not in Russian where it's almost a "borrowed word, used literally" )

FWIW, in the French translation, it's "boite unifiée", "unified folder" and I like how it's easier for the user to understand.
Creating debug logs for diagnostics: https://www.aqua-mail.com/troubleshooting/

The official FAQ: https://www.aqua-mail.com/faq/

Лог-файлы для диагностики: https://www.aqua-mail.com/ru/troubleshooting/

Вопросы и ответы: https://www.aqua-mail.com/ru/faq/

mikeone

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Re: German
« Reply #298 on: December 20, 2015, 07:07:35 pm »
Um, actually maybe Smart Folder should be translated.

The examples above (Outlook, OS X) are telling, and then Smart Folder is not really on par with such established terms as WiFi, IMAP, etc.

( it would be silly to translate IMAP, or WiFi... maybe Push should be translated though, I'm not sure, it's not in Russian where it's almost a "borrowed word, used literally" )

FWIW, in the French translation, it's "boite unifiée", "unified folder" and I like how it's easier for the user to understand.
Here are some more examples of other translations:

Netherlands: Overzichtsmap
Español: Bandeja Unificada
Italiano: Posta unificata
Français: Boite unifiée

mikeone

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Re: German
« Reply #299 on: December 20, 2015, 07:16:57 pm »
...
http://www.aqua-mail.com/forum/index.php?topic=2214.msg23106#msg23106
Nica:
I fully understand and agree with all your arguments and thoughts.

However, the advantage of the specific implementation of this feature should be worth to name it unique - not just simular "as other applications" already named it.
 8)
Let's think about it (again...)
Maybe some other forum members could specify further suggestions?
« Last Edit: December 25, 2015, 03:17:35 pm by mikeone »