AquaMail Forum
English - Android => Translations => Topic started by: nica on December 04, 2016, 08:45:17 pm
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Hi, since translations threads are closed, I'd like to give a feedback here in this thread.
Kostya wrote before (http://www.aqua-mail.com/forum/index.php?topic=5159.msg30140#msg30140), that translations were built from scratch up, also german. In result, on the one hand we see a better grammar now, thank you. On the other hand, there is some terminology, which is not common in german software language, and there is at least one bigger issue. Let me explanate two points:
1. The term "folder" is now translated everywhere as "Verzeichnis". This is not an appropriate way to do.
Ususally in software translations "folder" is translated (as in 1.6.x) as "Ordner". This expression is also used in Windows and well known by all people using german language.
The term "directory" (known from DOS, Linux etc.) usually is translated as "Verzeichnis". There are a lot of people, who don't know, what "Verzeichnis" means in technical way of meaning.
Furthermore:
- "Inbox" is translated as "E-Mail-Eingang". Usual translation is "Posteingang" known and used by other software
- The previous "Smart Box" is now translated as "Smart-Verzeichnis". Funny.
2. Wrong translation string: In account settings you will find in 1.7.x the item "Remove deleted messages" with explanation:
"Remove local copies of messages no longer on the server" (screenshot 1: original english)
This means that deleting a message on server will delete the local copy.
This is translated to a strange thing, almost the contrary:
"Lokale Nachrichten-Kopien nicht mehr vom Server entfernen" (see screenshot 2: wrong german 1.7.x)
This means in english: "Do not remove local copies of messages from the server anymore"
In version 1.6.x it was translated in an appropriate way:
"Vom Server gelöschte Nachrichten auch lokal entfernen" (see screenshot 3: correct german 1.6.x)
I'm afraid that users will be irritated by new translations.
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#1
I totally agree with @nica's comments. His objections are entirely reasoning:
• The term "Folder" should be translated as "Ordner" (not: "Verzeichnis")
• The term" Inbox" should be translated as "Posteingang" (not: "E-Mail-Eingang")
#2
Thanks to @nica for pointing out this obviously wrong translation:
• It's really necessary to return to the previous translation; "Vom Server gelöschte Nachrichten auch lokal entfernen"
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Very good points, thank you both.
As I'm sure you understand, not at all obvious to someone who does not speak German.
Yes, I can make those changes, they make sense --
-- if you're both OK with MobiSystems using those suggested changes, and if you are, can you please confirm. Sorry, those "corporate things".
PS - yes, I do remember the discussion about "Smart-Box" :)
And then, perhaps less apparent...
The "message action" buttons in the app's notifications, you know "move to deleted" etc, by default are "mapped" to strings that are used in the app's "window" (message list).
Well, notifications have very little space.
What I did for English (and Russian) is, used shorter strings for notifications specifically, even if it meant compromising on grammar.
These are for notifications:
<string name="action_op_delete_now">Delete now</string>
<string name="action_op_to_deleted">To Deleted</string>
<string name="action_op_to_spam">To Spam</string>
<string name="action_op_to_archive">To Archive</string>
<string name="action_op_hide">Hide</string>
And these are their "full" variations, used in the app's window (three dot menus, which have much more room):
<string name="message_list_op_delete">Delete permanently</string>
<string name="message_list_op_move_deleted">Move to Deleted</string>
<string name="message_list_op_move_spam">Move to Spam</string>
<string name="message_list_op_move_archive">Move to Archive</string>
<string name="message_list_op_hide">Hide (keep on server)</string>
Current German translations for the app's window:
<string name="message_list_op_delete">Endgültig löschen</string>
<string name="message_list_op_move_deleted">Nach \"Gelöschte Objekte\" verschieben</string>
<string name="message_list_op_move_spam">In das Spam-Verzeichnis verschieben</string>
<string name="message_list_op_move_archive">Ins Archiv verschieben</string>
<string name="message_list_op_hide">Ausblenden (auf dem Server behalten)</string>
And there are *no* shorter overrides for notifications.
Should there be? For German? The "action_op_delete_now" and others, like for English above?
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Very good points, thank you both.
As I'm sure you understand, not at all obvious to someone who does not speak German.
Yes, I can make those changes, they make sense --
-- if you're both OK with MobiSystems using those suggested changes, and if you are, can you please confirm. Sorry, those "corporate things".
Hi Kostya:
I confirm that "my" translations / suggestions could be used also by MobiSystems (but limited to the app 'Aqua Mail').
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I confirm that "my" translations / suggestions could be used also by MobiSystems (but limited to the app 'Aqua Mail').
Thank you Mike, yes this is for Aqua Mail only.
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Current German translations for the app's window:
<string name="message_list_op_delete">Endgültig löschen</string>
<string name="message_list_op_move_deleted">Nach \"Gelöschte Objekte\" verschieben</string>
<string name="message_list_op_move_spam">In das Spam-Verzeichnis verschieben</string>
<string name="message_list_op_move_archive">Ins Archiv verschieben</string>
<string name="message_list_op_hide">Ausblenden (auf dem Server behalten)</string>
And there are *no* shorter overrides for notifications.
Oops. Usually I have enabled "Only symbols, no text". Now I switched to "symbols and text". And I totally agree: Too long for notification's actions.
And
even if it meant compromising on grammar
I agree, too.
Suggestions with strong shortening:
<string name="message_list_op_delete">Löschen</string>
<string name="message_list_op_move_deleted">Zu \"Gelöscht\" </string>
<string name="message_list_op_move_spam">Zu Spam</string>
<string name="message_list_op_move_archive">Zum Archiv</string>
<string name="message_list_op_hide">Ausblenden</string>
What about the "Mark as read"-action, also to be found in notifications?
And I confirm that "my" translation /suggestions could be used also by Mobisystems (limited to AquaMail) ;)
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Current German translations for the app's window:
<string name="message_list_op_delete">Endgültig löschen</string>
<string name="message_list_op_move_deleted">Nach \"Gelöschte Objekte\" verschieben</string>
<string name="message_list_op_move_spam">In das Spam-Verzeichnis verschieben</string>
<string name="message_list_op_move_archive">Ins Archiv verschieben</string>
<string name="message_list_op_hide">Ausblenden (auf dem Server behalten)</string>
And there are *no* shorter overrides for notifications.
Suggestions with strong shortening:
<string name="message_list_op_delete">Löschen</string>
<string name="message_list_op_move_deleted">Zu \"Gelöscht\" </string>
<string name="message_list_op_move_spam">Zu Spam</string>
<string name="message_list_op_move_archive">Zum Archiv</string>
<string name="message_list_op_hide">Ausblenden</string>
@nica:
Thanks for your suggestions. However, I guess they are still too long
(how many characters are visible: 5, 6, 7,.. ?)
The "strongest shortening" version for notifications / actions could be:
<string name="action_op_delete_now">Löschen</string>
<string name="action_op_to_deleted">Papierkorb</string>
<string name="action_op_to_spam">Spam</string>
<string name="action_op_to_archive">Archiv</string>
<string name="action_op_hide">Ausblenden</string>
And there should be (at least) another one:
English:
message_list_op_ > action_op_
"Mark as read" > "Read"
German:
message_list_op_ > action_op_
"Als Gelesen markieren" > "Gelesen"
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@nica:
Thanks for your suggestions. However, I guess they are still too long
(how many characters are visible: 5, 6, 7,.. ?)
Kostya used up to 10 characters in english. "Zu 'Gelöscht'" has more characters, the other strings could fit.
But I' m fine with your suggestions, including "Gelesen".
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Re: And I confirm that "my" translation /suggestions could be used also by Mobisystems (limited to AquaMail) ;)
Thank you @nica.
( BTW, Android 7 uses text only and no icons )
Re: Suggestions with strong shortening:
Thank you. I've ended up doing this:
<string name="action_op_delete_now">Löschen</string>
<string name="action_op_to_deleted">Zu \"Gelöscht\" </string>
<string name="action_op_to_spam">Zu Spam</string>
<string name="action_op_to_archive">Zum Archiv</string>
<string name="action_op_hide">Ausblenden</string>
<string name="action_op_as_read">Gelesen</string>
( didn't like "Papierkorb" because that term isn't used anywhere else in the app )
Are these OK?
I've also changed "Gelöscht Objekte" to just "Gelöscht" (folder name), that "Objekte" seemed strange, there was no "Gesendet Objekte", just "Gesendet" and so on.
Is that OK?
And finally, I'll be changing Smart-Ordner back to Smart-Box.
No new build today, but the next one will have it.
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Re: And finally, I'll be changing Smart-Ordner back to Smart-Box.
Should it be Smart-Box or SmartBox?
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Ok for me.
(But I can't find "Gelöscht Objekte" in 1.7.0-52 dev. Didn't noticed that).
And I would rather prefer "SmartBox" as a clear artificial term (as in 1.6.x). But not important.
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Re: (But I can't find "Gelöscht Objekte" in 1.7.0-52 dev. Didn't noticed that).
Right, that's not there yet, I'm only making the changes "now".
It will be in the next build (currently posted is 1.7.0-61-dev and it's from yesterday, doesn't have this yet).
Re: Smart-Box -> SmartBox
Will do.
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@Kostya:
Great and thanks, that's all okay.
Thanks again to @nica for his original post.
Mikeone
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This new build:
http://www.aqua-mail.com/forum/index.php?topic=5205.0
has all the above changes.
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@Kostya:
Thanks, but it was not successful for all points mentioned.
You did a "Find & Replace" action for "Verzeichnis" and "Ordner"
Unfortunately:
- Plural of "Verzeichnis" is "Verzeichnisse"
- Plural of "Ordner" is "Ordner"
So we got a lot of senseless "Ordnerse" now in AquaMail... :)
Please replace all "Ordnerse" with "Ordner". Then it will be ok in this point.
Btw: notification actions seems to be good now.
Also the other things I mentioned are fixed, thx.
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You did a "Find & Replace" action for "Verzeichnis" and "Ordner"
Unfortunately:
- Plural of "Verzeichnis" is "Verzeichnisse"
- Plural of "Ordner" is "Ordner"
So we got a lot of senseless "Ordnerse" now in AquaMail... :)
Yep, that's exactly what I did, how did you guess ;)
You did a "Find & Replace" action for "Verzeichnis" and "Ordner"
Please replace all "Ordnerse" with "Ordner". Then it will be ok in this point.
Will do, thank you.
Ordnerse für %1$s -> Ordner für %1$s
and all others.
Any other "variations" of "Ordner" that I should be aware of?
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Umm, another problem:
It's "das Verzeichnis", but "der Ordner"
So it's wrong to have "in das Spam-Ordner". Must be "in den Spam-Ordner". I don't know, if I see all issues.
Sorry, german is bad. :)
Besides are more than 20 other issues, I guess at first sight. Some minor, some just irritating, some wrong grammar. Don't know what to do. Needs time. And a translator, who is better experienced with german language and software translations.
If there was a platform like crowdin.com with all the strings, it would be easier to improve it step by step...
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Just another example, taken from settings:
Also in english I see issues (but be aware, I'm not a native speaker, and my english is not very good).
I know settings to "syncronize", now mixed up with "Mails, receiving" as header. Not the same.
In german translation "syncronize" has gone everywhere. Now just only "abrufen" (=retrieving).
The more I look into menus, the more I find issue...
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It's "das Verzeichnis", but "der Ordner"
So it's wrong to have "in das Spam-Ordner". Must be "in den Spam-Ordner".
OK, fixed this too.
I also changed a few instances of "Archiv" and "Archivordner" to "Archiv-Ordner" (was already like that in most places, also consistent with "Spam-Ordner").
If there was a platform like crowdin.com with all the strings, it would be easier to improve it step by step...
Last I checked, it didn't support Android's "plural" and/or "string-array" resources. Not sure if it's been fixed.
The "MobiSystems process" for translations has a lot of good things about it, on the other hand...
... having suggestions from the app's actual users, who are also native speakers (and I don't mean just German) is very valuable. I'm grateful to you @nica and to @mikeone for these.
We'll see.
Meanwhile, a new build:
https://www.aqua-mail.com/download/AquaMail-market-1.7.0-73-dev-ba28bf6f40d4.apk
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Hi! My first posting here ... german native speaker.
I also see a logical problem in a menu item: “Alle Gelesenen markieren“ means “Mark all read (mails)“.
But what this menu item really does is to mark all mails as being read, something completely different, and a very useful function which I use every day.
It should be translated to “Alle als gelesen markieren“.
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Hi! My first posting here ... german native speaker.
I also see a logical problem in a menu item: “Alle Gelesenen markieren“ means “Mark all read (mails)“.
But what this menu item really does is to mark all mails as being read, something completely different, and a very useful function which I use every day.
It should be translated to “Alle als gelesen markieren“.
Kostya:
Please correct the German translation as suggested by dstockinger (= rolling back to the "Pre-MobiSystems" version for this item)
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I just did, thank you.
The current list of "mark read / unread" in the various places is:
res/values-de/strings_message_display.xml
77: <string name="message_display_menu_mark_unread">Als \"Ungelesen\" markieren</string>
78: <string name="message_display_menu_mark_read">Als \"Gelesen\" markieren</string>
res/values-de/strings_message_list.xml
30: <string name="message_list_menu_mark_all_read">Alle als \"Gelesen\" markieren</string>
68: <string name="message_list_op_as_read">Als \"Gelesen\" markieren</string>
69: <string name="message_list_op_as_unread">Als \"Ungelesen\" markieren</string>
This is with the suggested change, just made. Look OK?
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Yes, looks very good :)
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I made a new build just for that ;)
http://www.aqua-mail.com/forum/index.php?topic=5251.0
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Thanks
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That looks great, thanks @mikeone!
(https://media.giphy.com/media/3o72F7YT6s0EMFI0Za/giphy.gif)
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Wow! Thank you all!!!
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Just to follow up on the "new German translation is not very good":
We have an updated translation, hopefully it's better, and I expect to be able to post a new build with those changes included over the next few days, so you -- native German speakers -- can see if it's really better (I hope, but maybe not...).
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Kostya:
That sounds good. Thanks for your support.
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Thank you, Kostya.
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So we got the new translation, and I wanted to ask which is right:
Dieser Ordner
Dieses Ordner
Kontenordner
Kontenordnerse
In das Spam-Ordner verschieben
In den Spam-Ordner verschieben
I remember that when I updated the wrong term for "folder" to the correct Order, it was then necessary to go back and fix the articles and suffixes.
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Hello,
don't know the context. But "Dieses Ordner" is defintely wrong. "Dieser Ordner" could be right, depending on grammatical context
Furthermore: "Kontenordnerse" is funny nonsense... But also "Kontenordner" is not appropriated. You might think of the list of accounts? So better use "Kontenliste".
Btw: Every german speaking translator knows this. Hopefully, this time you got somebody, who speaks german and also has experience in software translation. :)
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... And the third term:
"In den Spam-Ordner verschieben" is the right one.
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@mikeone Thanks :)
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We got the updated German translation and... it's not any better than what's there now.
And because of this, we (MobiSystems) would like to use the "old" German translation from 1.6.
Would this be possible? Would you @mikeone and @nice give your permission for us to do that?
Re: concerns about contributions from other people - we'll just handle them as they happen, if they ever do, and those were very minor.
But if someone else contacts us and claims that "hey, I was the one who translated these 3 lines here", we'll remove / redo those.
We're actually thinking about releasing a small update just with that "old" translation.
That is, again, if you both, @mikeone and @nica give us your permission to use it.
And then going forward, for any *new* strings, we'll consider using a different translation service (and as with 1.7, if those new strings also turn out bad, you'll be able to comment here and we'll try to resolve it).
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We got the updated German translation and... it's not any better than what's there now.
How could that happen?
And because of this, we (MobiSystems) would like to use the "old" German translation from 1.6.
Would this be possible? Would you @mikeone and @nice give your permission for us to do that?
Yes for permission by myself (Only very few parts are translated by me).
But if someone else contacts us and claims that "hey, I was the one who translated these 3 lines here", we'll remove / redo those.
Of course. But it won't be necessary, I assume. :)
And then going forward, for any *new* strings, we'll consider using a different translation service (and as with 1.7, if those new strings also turn out bad, you'll be able to comment here and we'll try to resolve it).
"Comment here" means: here in forum?
Isn't there an alternative way to go? Google sheet with 4 columns and permission to edit for some users?
English | German | New Suggestions | Comments
Analogue for other languages?
Or similar?
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Re: How could that happen
Dunno!
Maybe not all Germans speak equally good German? Or know the technical terms well enough?
Re: Yes for permission by myself
Danke schoen!
We'll just wait for @mikeone to respond.
"Comment here" means: here in forum?
Isn't there an alternative way to go? Google sheet with 4 columns and permission to edit for some users?
There could be, but we're thinking that with the "old" translation as the base, and the "new" additions handled by the "new" translation service --
-- things should be better.
We're not asking you @nica and @mikeone to *maintain* the translation for future updates (new features / new strings), this would be too much to ask.
So we will use a translation service, just a different one, to do those "new" strings.
But if those "new" strings from the "new" service, in the future, also turn out to be bad, the forum should suffice to let us know -- and we'll have to think of a way to deal with that.
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Ok, thank you.
(Btw: It seems I overrated the ressources of Mobisystems, sorry for that)
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Hi Kostya,
I accept the use of my previous German translations from v1.6.
However, many improvements were made by MobiSystems. So it would be very useful to combine the best of both variants.
Therefore it would be a good idea to implement Nica's suggestion for an alternative procedure:
String | English | German (v1.6)| New Suggestions (v1.8 - MobiSystems) | Comments (Recommendation)
Kostya, Thanks again for listening to the users concerns and arguments.
Kindest regards
Mikeone
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@mikeone
Thank you. I really appreciate it, and I know all the German users will see the difference too.
Re: many improvements were made by MobiSystems
Did you mean additions, strings for things that were not present when the "old" (your and nica's) translation stopped?
For those, and just for those, we will use the ones done by MobiSystems. Since it's a fairly small number (maybe 20 or so), we hope that they're not as bad as the rest of the translation.
If you and @nica would like to review those, it's something we can try to arrange, but we'll need to discuss it first (with MobiSystems people).
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Oh and I am going to make a new build (builds) with those "tried and true" translations + anything missing from current, and post here on the forum first.
Won't be today though, but soon.
Thanks again, @mikeone and @nica!
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@mikeone and @nica
I'm in the process of reverting to your "old" translation, filling in any new items (not many of them) from our "new" translation.
Would it be possible to review these twp, I'm kind of not sure if the translation is any good?
<string name="prefs_swipe_message_list_sticky">Haftsymbole</string>
<string name="prefs_swipe_message_list_sticky_summary">Zum Ausführen eines Befehls über ein Symbol wischen, es loslassen oder darauf tippen</string>
Original:
<string name="prefs_swipe_message_list_sticky">Sticky icons</string>
<string name="prefs_swipe_message_list_sticky_summary">Swipe, release, tap an icon to execute a command</string>
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The existing translation is technically not correct and hard to understand. It sound like you have to swipe an icon instead of swiping the message
Suggestion:
<string name="prefs_swipe_message_list_sticky">Angeheftete Symbole</string>
<string name="prefs_swipe_message_list_sticky_summary">Zum Ausführen eines Befehls die Nachricht zur Seite ziehen, loslassen und dann auf ein Symbol tippen</string>
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The existing translation is technically not correct and hard to understand. It sound like you have to swipe an icon instead of swiping the message
Suggestion:
<string name="prefs_swipe_message_list_sticky">Angeheftete Symbole</string>
<string name="prefs_swipe_message_list_sticky_summary">Zum Ausführen eines Befehls die Nachricht zur Seite ziehen, loslassen und dann auf ein Symbol tippen</string>
Yes, I agree with nica's suggestion.
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Re: The existing translation is technically not correct and hard to understand. It sound like you have to swipe an icon instead of swiping the message
Thanks!
I will make this change, merge into both 1.7-stable and 1.8-dev and post tonight, so you (and other German users) can see it.
If everything goes well, we'll update in Play soon.
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Both 1.7.1 and 1.8 with this translation are now available under "development builds".
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Both 1.7.1 and 1.8 with this translation are now available under "development builds".
Thank you.
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Thank you @mikeone and @nica :)