AquaMail Forum
English - Android => General Discussion => Topic started by: toolworker on September 01, 2016, 04:48:07 pm
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Through a combination of unobvious settings, I deleted an important message and could not get it back. I have several suggestions to help avoid this in the future. Possibly one of them is a bug?
I wanted to view a header. But right below View is Delete Permanently, and I accidentally hit it. (Easy to do on a small smartphone screen.)
The default option for undo is Enable Undo. So there was an undo button on the "Permanently Deleted" message. But I was not familiar with this message and the arrow looked like a "Back" button so I did not press it, and lost my last chance to retrieve the message.
Suggestion #1: The default undo option should be Enable Undo: off and Confirm when deleting messages: on. This will be clear to users even if they don't know all the details of Aqua Mail.
Fortunately I have the account Deleting Messages option set to Hide in the app, keep on the server.
Unfortunately this option does not seem to apply to permanently deleting messages. I suggest this is unclear at best and perhaps a bug.
So the message was also inadvertently deleted from the server and permanently lost. I tried this on another message, and indeed it was deleted from the server as soon as it was permanently deleted on the phone.
Suggestion #2: The Deleting Messages option should apply to all deletes, including permanently. Alternatively, have a separate option for Deleting Messages Permanently.
(I use POP3, because I use an old mail reader program on my PC that only supports POP3.)
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I wanted to view a header. But right below View is Delete Permanently, and I accidentally hit it. (Easy to do on a small smartphone screen.)
Thanks for pointing that out. I had exactly the same experience, a few weeks ago.
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Sorry to hear you deleted an important message. I understand how frustrating that can be.
Suggestion #2: The Deleting Messages option should apply to all deletes, including permanently. Alternatively, have a separate option for Deleting Messages Permanently.
I just wanted to tell you about different "delete" commands in Aquamail.
As you've seen already, you have three ways of "deleting" a messages in Aquamail: deleting permanently, moving to "Deleted" folder, hiding on server.
When you choose which one is "default" delete, and that sets the quickly accessible icon for that type of deleting, and the default delete action from the notifications.
But then all three are available to you through the "overflow" (three dots) menu in the message list view. This is for those situations when people want to delete in a way different way than the default one. (For a short while, I had the default option set to "move to deleted" (that's Aquamail default), and then using "delete permanently" for many messages.)
So, you Suggestion #2 does not make sense.
Now, in the message-view (you seem to be referring to that one), the overflow menu (as far as I know) is "dynamic", i.e. the items that appear depend on the options configured, and probably the state of the message.
(Note that your "default" delete option is available for fast access as an icon on the screen. So, there is not reason to repeat it in the menu.)
In my case, - I have "delete permanently" as the default way of deleting. So, I don't have that command in this menu. So, it is hard for me to judge its placement, but Mikeone confirms a similar accidental experience... So, it might be worth thinking about for the developer, Kostya.
Since my delete is configured as "delete permanently", I do use deletion confirmation. For me it is a protection against "fat finger" situations. Additionally, it is a protection against "tumbling" accidents, when I might press the delete button accidentally, while trying to catch the phone as, e.g. it's sliding from some surface. The "undo" option is unlikely to help in those cases.
I've had that configured long before "undo" option became available. (I don't have confirmations for "move to Spam", "move to Archive", as the outcome of those could be reversed.)
I hope this helps you in your understanding of how "delete"s work in Aquamail, so that you can find the optimum configuration and workflow for yourself.
Kostya: IIRC, there was a brief discussion about appearance of that "undo" icon. Maybe this use case warrants that "undo" button to be more obvious (I don't know how to do that short of adding the explicit text). Just thinking out loud.
Also, I agree with the OP that the "delete confirmation = On" is a safer Aquamail default choice, as this case shows. But you have a better vision of users' preferences on a broad scale.
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A POP3 account?
When an account has folders (IMAP, Exchange) the menu has:
View
Move to folder
Move to archive
Move to spam
Delete permanently
(move to archive and spam may not be present, but move to folder is, and it always asks for the folder to move to)
So how do I fix this, if I have to, and not break the undo-ability which I guess users expect by now?
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A POP3 account?
Yes:
(I use POP3, because I use an old mail reader program on my PC that only supports POP3.)
So how do I fix this, if I have to, and not break the undo-ability which I guess users expect by now?
I have been thinking about that (namely: vicinity of "view" and "delete permanently" and further complication due to the uncertain "undo" icon ), and I couldn't find any simple solution how to fix this in the menu. That's why I supported OP's suggestion that the default config should be reversed.
For those who expect "undo" that reversal wouldn't change anything (unless they start setting things anew, and then they already know some things..). For the brand-new users, it would be a safer choice, as for the OP.
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Re: Unfortunately this option does not seem to apply to permanently deleting messages. I suggest this is unclear at best and perhaps a bug.
Undo is fully available for "permanently deleting", including in message view.
So perhaps the only issue is -- that you didn't know to tap the "undo arrow" right in the undo "panel"?
Pressing Back does what it always does, goes back one screen, and this "commits" the last "pending" (undo-able) operation.
Re: The default undo option should be Enable Undo: off and Confirm when deleting messages: on
No, the default for undo should be "on" (enabled).
It's a very nice feature -- despite your negative experience, sorry-- and with "off by default" only maybe 0.01% of all users would be able to discover and use it.
Finally, the "delete permanently" in the menu, on the message view screen, deliberately does "delete permanently" specifically -- it's a way to "delete permanently" no matter what the account's "delete method" (which is sometimes handy, for certain messages).
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So perhaps the only issue is -- that you didn't know to tap the "undo arrow" right in the undo "panel"?
Pressing Back does what it always does, goes back one screen, and this "commits" the last "pending" (undo-able) operation.
Yes, I think you've got the essence of the issue correctly.
However, I see how in a panic state people tend to press "back": "No, no, go back!"
Also, for the "catching tumbling phone and accidentally pressing on "permanently delete" [when it is default delete]" situation: "undo" is not helpful, as it times out quickly, and besides, you are likely to press on the screen somewhere while still catching the phone. :(
But the portion of users who set "delete permanently" as the default delete is very low anyway, and the portion of those who will keep "undo" active is probably minuscule, probably 0.02%.
;)
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... Also, for the "catching tumbling phone and accidentally pressing on "permanently delete" [when it is default delete]" situation: "undo" is not helpful, as it times out quickly, and besides, you are likely to press on the screen somewhere while still catching the phone. :(
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@StR
Yes, this occurred exactly in my scenario and I wasn't able to avoid the 'permanently deletion' of this message. Fortunately it wasn't a very important one, but it was still annoying. 8)
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Would it help if Undo did not skip the confirmation setting for permanently deleting messages? If a user would rather rely on Undo to restore a permanently deleted message they can turn off that confirmation.
The descriptive text under the "Confirm when deleting messages" setting could be reworded to say "Always ask for a confirmation before permanently deleting messages" (where 'Always' has been added).
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Would it help if Undo did not skip the confirmation setting for permanently deleting messages? If a user would rather rely on Undo to restore a permanently deleted message they can turn off that confirmation.
The descriptive text under the "Confirm when deleting messages" setting could be reworded to say "Always ask for a confirmation before permanently deleting messages" (where 'Always' has been added).
Hi,
Your suggestion sounds very reasonable and seems worth to be implemented.
Thanks!
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Would it help if Undo did not skip the confirmation setting for permanently deleting messages? If a user would rather rely on Undo to restore a permanently deleted message they can turn off that confirmation.
The descriptive text under the "Confirm when deleting messages" setting could be reworded to say "Always ask for a confirmation before permanently deleting messages" (where 'Always' has been added).
I don't see why you want to change the current app behavior.
By default, it's Undo. If users want a confirmation, they can disable undo. If they want neither undo nor confirmation, they disable undo, then disable confirmation.
What's wrong with that?
Of course, you have tu use Undo button to undo actions.
@Paris Geek
The suggested change should be considered only for the action 'permanently delete' and should be a protection against "fat finger" situations.
Additionally, it is a protection against "tumbling" accidents, when the user might press the delete button ('Delete permantly') accidentally, while trying to catch the phone as, e.g. it's sliding from some surface. The "undo" option is unlikely to help in those cases.
"Use" case:
http://www.aqua-mail.com/forum/index.php?topic=4963.msg28696#msg28696
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Re: The suggested change should be considered only for the action 'permanently delete'
And the suggestion is -- to exclude "permanent delete" from "undo", so it's always caught by confirmations?
Re: when the user might press the delete button ('Delete permantly') accidentally, while trying to catch the phone
What if the user presses the "yes, I confirm, go ahead with the delete" accidentally, while trying to catch the phone?
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Re: The suggested change should be considered only for the action 'permanently delete'
And the suggestion is -- to exclude "permanent delete" from "undo", so it's always caught by confirmations?
The suggestion is, to add an (sub) option under 'Enable Undo':
Keep (don't skip) confirmation before permanently deleting messages [_]
-> Default could be equal to the setting 'Confirm when deleting messages' — in the section below
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Kostya wrote: "And the suggestion is -- to exclude "permanent delete" from "undo", so it's always caught by confirmations?"
Yes, just permanent deletions. The Undo setting would continue to default to "On".
Kostya wrote: "What if the user presses the "yes, I confirm, go ahead with the delete" accidentally, while trying to catch the phone?"
The email is permanently deleted. Sorry, we (you, actually) cannot handle all cases where someone is trying to catch their phone.
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mikeone wrote:
The suggestion is, to add an (sub) option under 'Enable Undo':
Keep (don't skip) confirmation before permanently deleting messages [_]
-> Default could be equal to the setting 'Confirm when deleting messages'
My suggestion is to only reword the descriptive text under the "Confirm when deleting messages" to read "Always ask for a confirmation before permanently deleting messages". No new option under Undo.
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Kostya wrote: "And the suggestion is -- to exclude "permanent delete" from "undo", so it's always caught by confirmations?"
Yes, just permanent deletions. The Undo setting would continue to default to "On".
What about users who don't have any issues using undo in combination with "delete permanently" and maybe even enjoy it?
Kostya wrote: "What if the user presses the "yes, I confirm, go ahead with the delete" accidentally, while trying to catch the phone?"
The email is permanently deleted. Sorry, we (you, actually) cannot handle all cases where someone is trying to catch their phone.
OK.
So if we agree that no matter what the UI, there may always be accidental / unintended presses (including catching the phone or just "um, I just tapped OK without reading what it said") -- is it worth trying to fix the case that started this discussion?
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Re: when the user might press the delete button ('Delete permantly') accidentally, while trying to catch the phone
What if the user presses the "yes, I confirm, go ahead with the delete" accidentally, while trying to catch the phone?
In this case, the user would have pressed accidentally two different buttons consecutively. Iin my opinion very unlikely:
1st - Delete permantly ('behind' the Overflow menu)
> therefore this is already the second press
2nd(3rd) - Confirmation message
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Kostya wrote: "What about users who don't have any issues using undo in combination with "delete permanently" and maybe even enjoy it?"
The behavior would change. If they have Undo enabled and don't want the (new) permanent confirmation then they have to turn it off.
Kostya wrote:
"So if we agree that no matter what the UI, there may always be accidental / unintended presses (including catching the phone or just "um, I just tapped OK without reading what it said") -- is it worth trying to fix the case that started this discussion?"
I think the fact that Undo is transient is relevant here, and for whatever reason there's a chance it won't be invoked. To be honest, I don't feel strongly about this proposal even though I offered a suggestion on how it might be addressed. Perhaps this issue is not a strong enough case to change the way the app works.
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Kostya wrote: "And the suggestion is -- to exclude "permanent delete" from "undo", so it's always caught by confirmations?"
Yes, just permanent deletions. The Undo setting would continue to default to "On".
What about users who don't have any issues using undo in combination with "delete permanently" and maybe even enjoy it?
This user could disable the (new) option
'Keep (don't skip) confirmation before permanently deleting messages [_]
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Kostya wrote: "What about users who don't have any issues using undo in combination with "delete permanently" and maybe even enjoy it?"
The behavior would change. If they have Undo enabled and don't want the (new) permanent confirmation then they have to turn it off.
Yes.
However, I recommend to implement this enhancement as an additional option (as described before), since the logic behind would be clearer for the average user.
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Let's come back to the specifics of the initial message.
It seems that the issue only exists on the message view screen, and only for this "secondary" menu item, i.e. when the account's "delete method" is specifically not "delete permanently"
( when it is, it's a button in the button bar below )
On Windows, I'd just put a separator above "delete permanently". Alas, Android menus do not support separators.
How about this then:
Exclude this specific case of "delete permanently" from "undo"? Unconditionally (no setting)?
I mean just the "delete permanently" menu item in the overflow menu specifically of message view specifically?
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Let's come back to the specifics of the initial message.
It seems that the issue only exists on the message view screen, and only for this "secondary" menu item, i.e. when the account's "delete method" is specifically not "delete permanently"
( when it is, it's a button in the button bar below )
Yes, correct.
The problem ("use" case) is as follows:
The item 'Delete permantly 'is usually located near the bottom of the "overflow" menu (see screenshot #1)
> if the user tries to scroll the list (e.g. one-handed) it is very likely that he will hit accidentally the item 'Delete permantly'...then, surprisingly the "Undo-panel' appears - but times out quickly - the user will get in 'panic' - trying to hit the 'Undo-button' (remember: the device is in 'one-handed' use), but missed it and the message get lost... permanently.
How about this then:
Exclude this specific case of "delete permanently" from "undo"? Unconditionally (no setting)?
I mean just the "delete permanently" menu item in the overflow menu specifically of message view specifically?
This could be a solution (workaround?):
Move the setting 'Confirm when deleting messages' right below of the item 'Confirm' Mark all read' = excluding this case from "Undo".
However, I'm not sure if this solution would be sufficient for users who a) explicitly don't want to confirm , but b) instead need an undo function for this action.
That's the reason for my suggestion to add an (sub) option:
http://www.aqua-mail.com/forum/index.php?topic=4963.msg28729#msg28729