Post by: arbit12 on August 24, 2016, 03:17:34 pm
My office recently moved to o365, which is when I realised the sad state of exchange clients for android. Most use activesync, which seems stuck in 2005, so a lot of exchange features are not available. Those with EWS seem half hearted, at least to me. OWA wrappers are just too slow.
Example. Try to set up a shared folder email and calendar on mobile. Even sites like slipstick tell you it can't be done, and give some vastly complex workarounds. Or you have to get another app like Outlook Groups, and then keep switching between the two!
Unless, of course, you use Aquamail. It's the only client I've found so far that handles shared and group folders and calendars properly, and can handle features like calendar colours and event colours. For me at least, the lack of push is an acceptable tradeoff. No exaggeration to say it's a lifesaver for someone who wants to *really* use o365.
So, the point is that it is already easily among the best approaches to exchange. Everyone handles the basics, but only a couple handle the tough issues that no one seems to have an answer to.
Might be worthwhile to think about whether it can evolve into a full fledged exchange client, including contacts initially, and maybe tasks and notes later. Add an ability to use identities in O365 (another area where there is a lot of user frustration. Right now, I have an activesync account on stock mail app set up for contacts and calendar, and the same account as IMAP in Aquamail for email to be able to use identities ), and it could be a killer app.
It would fill a major gap, and also, from what I can see, people are prepared to pay for an exchange app that actually allows them to use the features of exchange in 201!
Any thoughts ?
Sent from my SM-N915G using Tapatalk
Post by: StR on August 24, 2016, 04:56:09 pm
Unless, of course, you use Aquamail. It's the only client I've found so far that handles shared and group folders and calendars properly, and can handle features like calendar colours and event colours. For me at least, the lack of push is an acceptable tradeoff.
I cannot speak for Kostya, but here are two pieces of information that you might find useful:
1. Push is already implemented. It is in the -dev version that you can install by downloading using the link at the top of this thread: http://www.aqua-mail.com/forum/index.php?topic=4908.0
Note that if you install it now, once the new version is released to Google Play, you can update via Google Play "automatically", without any complications.
2. The latest word from Kostya about his next step for the Exchange-oriented features of Aquamail:
My current focus is push mail for Exchange, and for the next version, proper Contacts sync for Exchange.
Post by: Kostya Vasilyev on August 26, 2016, 01:17:39 am
Please see under "development builds" or here really:
https://plus.google.com/communities/112921486711044378404
Shared mailboxes -- yes, someone made me aware of this, quite some time ago, wasn't hard to do.
Identities -- would have been done long time ago, but I can't figure out how to set up my Office 365 account for sending (from an identity).
I've set it up to collect mail (from Yahoo, if this matters, just one of my junk / testing accounts), but there does not appear to be a way to send from this (Yahoo) account / identity really.
Post by: arbit12 on August 26, 2016, 04:41:54 am
In any case, this does not help in sending from an alias. MS does not want you sending mail from a mailbox you haven't paid for
One option, but server side, is to use distribution lists with send as permission given to the primary mailbox. So there has to be a distribution list called alias@xyz which has primary@xyz as a member. Also, primary@xyz is given permission to send as alias@xyz.com.
This sorts out all the problems. Only thing is that the exchange administrator has to set it up. For aquamail, I suppose it could ask for the distribution lists intended to be used as part of account setup of primary@xyz (like it does for shared folders. Or maybe even discover them automatically if thats possible). And then send as those. If the user doesn't have the send as permission for that list it will bounce back anyway.
There is also a client side only option for Sending As, at least in outlook for desktop, which is a plugin like Proxy Manager. This identifies the alias id in the incoming mail headers and replaces some field in the header of the outgoing mail with the same alias. I don't know the details or whether this can be done in an android client. The advantage is it is client side only.
Right now, I have an active sync account for primary@xyz in my stock Samsung email client. This syncs only calendar and contacts to device.
In aquamail, I have primary@xyz as an IMAP account to sync mail only. I have setup the identities on aquamail corresponding to the distribution list setup on server side. Works perfectly.
Sent from my SM-N915G using Tapatalk
Post by: arbit12 on August 26, 2016, 04:53:00 am
User can set up an Office365 group called alias@xyz with only one member, primary@xyz. Can then receive and send mail with that id.
Only thing is that Aquamail would then have to deliver the mail to the primary email account on the client side. Maybe set it up as a shared folder and also ask which account the mail should be delivered to in Aquamail. Is that possible.
Of course, will lead to extra data usage as it will first come in, then move on client side to primary account, then be synced back up to the O365 server from primary.
Sent from my SM-N915G using Tapatalk
Post by: Kostya Vasilyev on August 26, 2016, 04:14:22 pm
Post by: arbit12 on August 27, 2016, 04:30:42 am
Sent from my SM-N915G using Tapatalk
Post by: arbit12 on August 31, 2016, 03:53:51 pm
Right now, if I long press an IMAP or POP account name, I can set up identities which are basically alias email addresses which use the same settings as the account.
For an exchange account, can the identical feature be provided? So it will give the user the facility to add alias or identity emails. Absolutely identical to the current feature for IMAP and POP.
Whether it works or not will of course depend on the exchange setup, but for those who can get the setup done, it would be very useful.
To avoid any confusion, there can be a popup asking users to ensure that the server side has been set up correctly. If it works, would be happy to contribute a post on how to set up the server side.
Sent from my SM-N915G using Tapatalk
Post by: Kostya Vasilyev on September 01, 2016, 01:32:17 am
Adding a "long press" and a "screen" and a "checkbox" is not the important part, I think...
If I just did that, the app would recognize that a message was sent to an alias, same as it does for Internet Mail accounts.
But what about sending?
I can put the identity's address into the From header, sure, but is this how Exchange handles identities on the sending side?
From the above description, I don't believe this is so. And I'm left with the impression that perhaps Exchange doesn't even have the concept of "identities" that's identical to those in Internet mail.
Am I wrong somewhere?
Post by: StR on September 01, 2016, 06:04:37 am
But I thought this page has a nice set of various ways of dealing with them:
https://www.howto-outlook.com/faq/aliases.htm
It is very likely that you've seen it already, - then please forgive me for providing an obvious link.
Post by: arbit12 on September 01, 2016, 06:54:47 am
Yes, Unlike the free Gmail, where you just set up the alias, in Exchange / O365 you can "send from": an email id only if it is
1. set up as a distribution list or
2. an office 365 group or
3. a separate paid mailbox
AND
admin has given you permission to "send as" that email id.
Aquamail can insert the alias email in the header, but it will be sent by Exchange only if the above conditions are met. Else Exchange will send it back with a "no permissions" or "no mailbox exists" error message.
But if the header is inserted AND the server side is set up, it should work.
For example, right now, on Aquamail, I access my O365 account email through IMAP. I have set up identities in Aquamail corresponding to distribution lists set up on the server, for which I have "send as" permission. It works perfectly. I suppose it should work just as well if the same feature is available when the account is set up as an Exchange account.
Hence the suggestion is to provide the feature anyway on the Aquamail side, with the warning that it will work only if the server side change is also done. It is up to the user to set it up or get admin to set it up.
I'd be happy to test it out in a development build if you feel it is worth doing.
Post by: Kostya Vasilyev on September 02, 2016, 11:30:06 pm
What a mess, users having to come up with various ways to trick Exchange into doing what they want...
Re: in Exchange / O365 you can "send from": an email id only if it is
I could support option 3, sounds like that's very similar to "internet mail" aliases / identities -- correct?
All that needs to be done is using the correct "From" header, true?
Post by: arbit12 on September 03, 2016, 04:10:17 am
I suppose all paid mailboxes would work the same way, else you could pay for one and effectively have an infinite number of accounts.
Sent from my SM-N915G using Tapatalk
Post by: Kostya Vasilyev on September 04, 2016, 10:02:59 pm
Post by: dennosius on November 03, 2017, 12:24:05 am
To send emails as an alias in O365, the best way is
1) set up a shared mailbox and give yourself "send as" permissions
2) set up a rule so that all incoming emails for the shared mailbox are redirected to your account
This way, the shared inbox remains empty. It shows up in Outlook (etc.), but doesn't hurt.
Ah, and if you use shared mailboxes in a multi domain environment, you need to set them up in the Exchange admin panel and set custom "account" names; otherwise, info@domain1.com and info@domain2.com cannot co-exist as shared mailboxes.
This is pain in the ass, but I believe, once this is set up, simply changing the From field does the job. I even believe that there must be some way (at least in MAPI, don't know about other protocols) to request all available aliases from the server, because once (but only once) my desktop Outlook provided me with a pull down list, that magically disappeared a while later.
Post by: Kostya Vasilyev on November 03, 2017, 08:04:23 pm
Tried it with an alias (an email address at another mail service) already configured in Office 365 web mail and available there for sending.
Attempting to send from the app failed - Office 365 server did not recognize the alias as a valid "from" address, and did not send the message.
And so that's where it's at. Nowhere.
Just setting the From header doesn't work - unless / until Microsoft makes it possible (if they do).
Post by: dennosius on November 03, 2017, 10:17:10 pm
thanks for your reply.
You are right, it is indeed impossible to send emails from an external email address. This does neither work from Outlook (Desktop) nor any other device. I'm even surprised that you can do this in OWA, I can't (maybe because I'm using O365 Business in the special German cloud). I thought this only works with the free Outlook.com/Live account.
Also, you cannot send emails from "Alias" adresses configured in the general account settings. The aliases work for incoming mail only.
The only way to send emails from other (internal, i.e. within the same O365 organization) email addresses is the one with shared mailboxes that I described.
But this does work fine, even in AuqaMail, when I change the email address manually (and also manually configure an Exchange account instead of O365, so I can configure a username independent from the email address).
Let's say, my user account is first.last@domain.com, and I want to send an email as info@domain.com, then info@domain.com is a shared mailbox where first.last has "Send as" rights to. In AquaMail, I can add an Exchange account with info@domain.com as email address and Exchange login credentials from first.last. Emails are sent perfectly well "from" info@domain.com
So I assume that it really is as easy as changing the from field, because that's essentially what I do when I change the email address in AquaMail manually, right?
The only downside for you would be that you may receive support requests from people that don't understand O365's limitations in that repect.
Edit: If you can provide me with a test APK where the Identities feature is enabled for Exchange and O365 accounts, I'd be happy to try.
Post by: Kostya Vasilyev on November 04, 2017, 01:02:20 am
Quote
So I assume that it really is as easy as changing the from field, because that's essentially what I do when I change the email address in AquaMail manually, right?
The only downside for you would be that you may receive support requests from people that don't understand O365's limitations in that repect.
Thank you for the explanation.
- Sending "from" an alias, even if it's an external address, is now possible in Office 365 web mail.
I've actually done this before trying it with Aqua (which did not work). This is a recent addition.
- The shared mailboxes trick.
Nice but - and this is really the issue - you're right, support, people trying to use it, complaining that it doesn't work...
I remember someone else posting "very special" instructions for yet another way to do aliases in Exchange, I think they involved a distribution list (?).
Same thing again, just too complicated for the average user who's going to "long press here" and "tap there" just because those menu options are there in the app.
And so we're again without a universal solution that would "just work" (the way things usually do for Internet Mail accounts).
Post by: dennosius on November 04, 2017, 01:55:03 am
Maybe the problem of people not understanding it can be solved by renaming the feature. I believe "mailbox permissions" is the offical MS feature description. And/or make a checkbox in account settings that enables it. I also would commit myself to writing a How-To here in the forums.
Because, on the other hand, the feature would be really unique to AquaMail. Not even Nine offers that, and I believe I've also tried almost each and every other Exchange-compatible Android mail client.
Post by: arbit12 on November 04, 2017, 07:23:31 pm
Kostya, I think (not sure though), that right now the alias on Office365 works only on the web for Outlook.com, not through the mobile clients. That _might_ be why it didn't work with Aquamail.
Coming back to Exchange. Quite a lot of stuff has recently happened for exchange in Aquamail, and supporting distribution lists etc would be a logical step. As mentioned by dennosius above, it would also be the only android exchange client with this feature.
Since there was a question mark about the Distribution List, taking a short detour. A DL is basically a mailing list. Eg an id called alias@xyz.com with 3 members. Any mail addressed to alias@xyz.com is automatically forwarded to the 3 members - there is no mailbox called alias@xyz.com. Related concepts are Shared mailbox (which keeps the mail in a separate mailbox called alias@xyz.com which the 3 members can access), and Groups (which again keeps the mail in alias@xyz.com, but also add a sharepoint site, planner, calendar etc). DLs are (for now) the lightest, and also don't need a separate mailbox to be setup or accessed by the client.
The original request was for O365 for business (eg contoso.com, closer to exchange), and not O365 consumer (eg outlook.com, closer to internet mail).
Actually, the process for O365 (business) is not that different from Gmail or other internet mail
1. Set up alias account to send from : Internet: set up account. Exchange: Set up DL
2. Give Send As permissions: Required in both
3. Decide whether to ask for which account to send from or to send from the recieving account: Required for both.
The only real difference is that in internet mail, most people would do it themselves as admin, while in Office 365 (corporate), the corporate admin might be required.
Would be great if, as requested in the post above, there could be a test apk, which has 2 features for Exchange accounts (like the identities for IMAP).
1. Add alias names (or more accurately, DL names)
2. Replace the From in the outgoing mail with the email id of the incoming mail when coming through a DL.
All the server side setup would be done by the testers.
To avoid confusion,
1. Instead of identities, we can call them DLs or Groups?
2. Maybe like Gmail and Office 365 accounts, there could be a category called O365 for Business
At least we can test the concept. If it does work, it would be really useful for work emails, and the communication / support can be thought through before sending it to production.
Post by: Kostya Vasilyev on November 05, 2017, 03:10:48 pm
Re: corporate / personal
My Office 365 subscription is "corporate" not "personal" - with a custom domain and all.
And yet I was able to add a Yahoo account and use it as an alias for collecting *and* sending mail from Office 365 web mail.
The sending is a recent addition, I believe.
And yes it didn't work when I tried sending a message through the EWS protocol with a different From header.
Re: the process for O365 (business)
Yes I think that's the setup I've heard about before (maybe from you even).
Thank you for all the details. All I can do is write them down for the future.
The server setup still seems complicated - but the main thing is, we've got a bunch of other work going on right now, so I don't even have the time to investigate this (right now).
Post by: arbit12 on November 06, 2017, 03:24:26 pm
One clarification though. Was talking about an alias on the same domain and not a connected account.
Sent from my SM-N915G using Tapatalk
Post by: arbit12 on November 06, 2017, 03:30:14 pm
There are actually 50 shades of "Groups" (distribution lists, shared mailboxes...) in O365 and I don't get all the differences. Maybe other variants work as well. And, of course, it does work between regular accounts (when a secretary writes emails for their boss, or an employee for another one on leave).dennosius, have a workaround which works pretty well for me on O365 business.
Maybe the problem of people not understanding it can be solved by renaming the feature. I believe "mailbox permissions" is the offical MS feature description. And/or make a checkbox in account settings that enables it. I also would commit myself to writing a How-To here in the forums.
Because, on the other hand, the feature would be really unique to AquaMail. Not even Nine offers that, and I believe I've also tried almost each and every other Exchange-compatible Android mail client.
Server side
1. Make a DL with the alias name. Only one member, the primary email.
2. Give primary account Send As rights to the DL.
Aquamail side
1. Connect to my primary mail as IMAP. Set up an identity using the DL name.
2. Add another account, again connecting to primary email, but as O365. On this one, keep email sync to minimum but sync calendar and contacts.
Works fine. I have over 5 aliases, all of which work perfectly for email in just the one IMAP account.
The exchange account takes care of the calendar and contacts in the background, and I never really open it.
Sent from my SM-N915G using Tapatalk
Post by: Kostya Vasilyev on November 07, 2017, 09:51:48 pm
Yes I understood that.
Post by: dennosius on October 09, 2018, 11:04:35 pm
Is there anything I can do (more) to support this feature?