Post by: Kostya Vasilyev on November 06, 2015, 01:49:30 am
---
+ Please reindex conversations, settings -> message list -> conversation view, turn off and back on.
( this version will do a full rebuild, it is necessary )
+ Added "message position within the list" in message view. Settings -> message view to turn off.
---
+ Необходимо пересчитать группировку, настройки - список сообщений, выключить группировку и включить обратно.
( эта версия выполнит полный пересчет данных, это необходимо )
+ Добавил отображение позиции письма в списке, при просмотре. Чтобы выключить, настройки - отображение сообщений.
Post by: bschelst on November 06, 2015, 09:42:47 am
A remark. The 'load messages' isnt anymore what i expected.
But it depends how you look at it of course.
I configured 'load 15 messages'. But with the conversation view, it is for example possible that you now will have 1 mail in your inbox, 1 conversation with 15 mails in there.
Personally I would have expected to have 15 mails in my inbox, but not taking into account the number of mails in a conversation. (or use another value for that).
But maybe i am the only one with that expectation :)
Post by: StR on November 06, 2015, 10:21:19 am
I didn't test it that way, - but I'd expect that "load 15 messages" would load up to 15 new messages (or fewer if there aren't that many new messages) during each sync from the Inbox.
How they are displayed can vary:
They might all be separate, or all in one or more conversation threads, or in a combination of those. And if the older, previously downloaded messages belong to those threads, they will be shown together in those threads.
But why should it matter how they are displayed,- if you wanted 15 messages loaded, you've got them. What if a conversation had 1000 messages? Do you really want to download 1015 messages to have 1 conversation with 1000 messages plus 15 messages separately?
But maybe I didn't understand what you meant.
Post by: bschelst on November 06, 2015, 11:03:19 am
Now he is showing 15 messages in total.
For example, if you now get 1 new mail, and that conversation contains 15 messages (with 14 old mails), your inbox would only show 1 conversation.
So if you have a conversation with a lot of messages, you will be f**f, because you won't see other mails in your inbox anymore, if you have bad luck of course .
Its true that the 'amount of messages loaded' is correct, but if you use conversations in your inbox this could be a disadvantage.
Post by: StR on November 06, 2015, 11:41:57 am
You are talking about the former, but you seem to mean the latter. Otherwise, if you had 14 messages in the thread, with the next sync you'd get [up to] 15 more new messages.
Second, - if all your messages are in a single big conversation: what's the problem?
Is your main goal just to fill-up the screen exactly? I am confused...
Post by: pyler on November 06, 2015, 05:06:43 pm
Post by: StR on November 06, 2015, 05:15:57 pm
1. You may end up with an unbound number of messages (in principle) .
2. At the time of sync, app doesn't know yet how the messwoild group in threads. And it cannot ask the server for N threads.
Loading messages one by one would be a waste of resources.
Post by: StR on November 06, 2015, 05:34:13 pm
There was a mathematical cake shop where all cakes were cut in exactly 100 pieces. So, the customers were expected to ask for so many percents. One kid was crying: "I asked for 40%, but they give me 2 pieces...Aaa..." And the adults were explaining to him that the cake was cut into 5 pieces, thus each piece was 20%; and he's got 2 of them. "No!... I want my 40%... I said `Please'... and I was going to say `thank you!'... Aaa!.."
Post by: bschelst on November 06, 2015, 06:01:50 pm
WRONG. Didn't you read my text?
I does NOT take into account 'new' or 'old' email
So if you have a conversation with 100 mails, and you get *1* new mail, this conversation will be the only conversation in your inbox.
Post by: StR on November 06, 2015, 06:37:02 pm
'Second, - if all your messages are in a single big conversation: what's the problem?'Did you mean "It" (instead of "I")? What "It" that "does not take into account 'new' or 'old' email?"
WRONG. Didn't you read my text?
I does NOT take into account 'new' or 'old' email
Quote
So if you have a conversation with 100 mails, and you get *1* new mail, this conversation will be the only conversation in your inbox.
What's wrong with that?
Post by: mikeone on November 06, 2015, 09:15:24 pm
'Second, - if all your messages are in a single big conversation: what's the problem?'Hi bschelst,
WRONG. Didn't you read my text?
I does NOT take into account 'new' or 'old' email
So if you have a conversation with 100 mails, and you get *1* new mail, this conversation will be the only conversation in your inbox.
How many and which messages will you see if you disable "Conversation view" in Settings > Message list...?
Post by: Kostya Vasilyev on November 06, 2015, 11:21:14 pm
If you ask the app to sync 25 messages, and 20 of those form a single conversation and 5 are "single", then you will see:
One list item representing those 20 messages in a single conversation
And five more list items each representing a single message
Working as intended, nothing to fix.
If that's somehow annoying / irritating to you, perhaps the real issue is you don't like messages being grouped into conversations?
Nothing wrong with that, I'm not a big fan either (although sometimes it's handy, but only sometimes), and you can just turn it off.
Post by: mikeone on November 06, 2015, 11:28:37 pm
Quote
.. and you can just turn it off.Yes,... and that's the reason why individual options are available in Settings.
8)
Post by: paras.desai on November 07, 2015, 09:13:33 am
Sent from my HTC One_E8 dual sim using Tapatalk
Post by: mikeone on November 07, 2015, 11:10:26 am
This is a (new implemented) message counter. Thereby the user can recognize at which position (in the message list) he is.
In addition to that it appears a separate counter if you are in a message of a conversation - to see "where you are" within the conversation.
Post by: mikeone on November 07, 2015, 11:24:38 am
Thanks for implementing these new "Message counters" in message view. Very well done, as always.
However, I realized that the description of the "counters" are mixed up if you are in a message of a conversation:
> see 2nd screenshot
Post by: papete on November 07, 2015, 11:53:30 am
Now that conversation view is implemented, I think it does not make sense to keep showing sent messages on smart folder (at least the ones that are part of a conversation). If I archive the last message received from a conversation (and take it out of smart folder) it does not make sense to keep the last conversation message sent there, in my opinion the whole conversation should be out.
Just a thought.
Thanks a lot for your work Kostya!!
Post by: paras.desai on November 07, 2015, 05:16:00 pm
Sent from my HTC One_E8 dual sim using Tapatalk
Post by: mikeone on November 07, 2015, 05:26:56 pm
Post by: Kostya Vasilyev on November 08, 2015, 12:22:45 am
I actually changed the wording last night for the "inside a conversation" case.
Re: Sent messages in Smart folder
There is a difference.
With "Sent messages in smart folder" ENABLED, you will see:
- All messages from incoming folders
- All messages from sent folders
- The linked messages will be shown as linked, but any sent messages not linked to any incoming message will be shown too.
( meaning if you just sent a brand new message and it doesn't link with any others, you'll see this just sent message too )
With "Sent in smart folder" DISABLED, you will see:
- If "across folders" is also disabled -> just all incoming messages, no sent.
- If "across folders" is enabled -> all incoming messages, and just those sent messages that are linked up to those incoming messages.
( This can be somewhat slow to load on low-end devices, btw )
So the difference is -- seeing all sent messages even if they're not linked up vs. seeing just the linked up sent messages.
And then it's down to individual preferences.
Post by: mikeone on November 08, 2015, 12:44:00 am
http://www.aqua-mail.com/download/AquaMail-market-1.6.0-14-dev1.4.apkKostya,
---
+ Please reindex conversations, settings -> message list -> conversation view, turn off and back on.
( this version will do a full rebuild, it is necessary )
+ Added "message position within the list" in message view. Settings -> message view to turn off.
---
+ Необходимо пересчитать группировку, настройки - список сообщений, выключить группировку и включить обратно.
( эта версия выполнит полный пересчет данных, это необходимо )
+ Добавил отображение позиции письма в списке, при просмотре. Чтобы выключить, настройки - отображение сообщений.
Within a converssation I would appreciate to get an indication in the new "position line" to see in which folder the currently displayed message is stored.
> maybe just if "across folders" is enabled <
Thanks a lot for thinking about it.
Mikeone
Post by: Iceman_jkh on November 08, 2015, 01:22:26 am
Thanks for implementing the thicker line and convo+message position bar for conversations, and for investigating+solving the conversation grouping issue I had ☺
Please consider the following feedback too:
1. Please make Convo+Message position bar also indicate if there are unread messages in a conversation. (Eg: adopts the colour scheme used for unread subject, for "message x/y" text, or uses an * like folders do).
2. A user option to auto open the most recent msg in a convo group, when user taps on convo. I realise this might now act like gmail, but it's my preferred way... I've actually found myself tapping straight on the first msg in the convo group on multiple occasions (since convos came to AM), so it just seems like a workflow improver to me (and maybe others too).
3. Per-Account (including smart folder) settings for whether to use conversation mode or normal. I think that conversation is brilliant for smart folder (it gives a powerful way to summarize/group content), but (I think) I'd prefer to use normal mode within my specified account folders. Note: I'm just guessing here. I haven't yet needed to go back to my individual account folders thanks to smart folder
Post by: Kostya Vasilyev on November 08, 2015, 01:25:03 am
Post by: StR on November 08, 2015, 01:35:41 am
Kostya,
I cannot speak for everybody, - but that logic makes perfect sense.
(That's exactly how I thought it should work when I read your previous postings mentioning this options.)
Post by: mikeone on November 08, 2015, 01:40:47 am
Re: Sent messages in Smart folderI agree with that.
Kostya,
I cannot speak for everybody, - but that logic makes perfect sense.
(That's exactly how I thought it should work when I read your previous postings mentioning this options.)
Post by: Iceman_jkh on November 08, 2015, 01:44:20 am
Re: Sent messages in Smart folder
Kostya,
I cannot speak for everybody, - but that logic makes perfect sense.
(That's exactly how I thought it should work when I read your previous postings mentioning this options.)
Agreed too.
And great, clear explanation Kostya!
Post by: StR on November 08, 2015, 01:57:39 am
Kostya,
Thanks for implementing the thicker line and convo+message position bar for conversations, and for investigating+solving the conversation grouping issue I had ☺
Ditto
I would still prefer if there was a clear visual distinction of the collapsed threads from single messages.
For the expanded view of the threads, I've been thinking this morning that I would have made a slight offset of all the messages in the thread to the right (e.g. by one symbol). This is even better indication of where the thread ends.
(Yes, you loose some real estate there, but it's only one character...)
It just helps to see the hierarchy...
Quote
2. A user option to auto open the most recent msg in a convo group, when user taps on convo. I realise this might now act like gmail, but it's my preferred way... I've actually found myself tapping straight on the first msg in the convo group on multiple occasions (since convos came to AM), so it just seems like a workflow improver to me (and maybe others too).
Please, only as an option... I personally wouldn't want AM going to any message when I expand the collapsed thread.
Quote
3. Per-Account (including smart folder) settings for whether to use conversation mode or normal. I think that conversation is brilliant for smart folder (it gives a powerful way to summarize/group content), but (I think) I'd prefer to use normal mode within my specified account folders. Note: I'm just guessing here. I haven't yet needed to go back to my individual account folders thanks to smart folder
I am not using the smart folder, but the thought of having per-account configurations for threading has crossed my mind a few times. I am still not sure if I need it or not... So far, with the conversation view enabled, I haven't encountered anything that would bother me or hinder the workflow (except that visual differentiation of the collapsed threads from the individual messages). If that remains the same, I would have no reason to disable it (the conversation view) even for the accounts where I wouldn't benefit from it.
Post by: Kostya Vasilyev on November 08, 2015, 02:06:32 am
Let's wait until it's clear that this is needed.
Re: I would have made a slight offset of all the messages in the thread to the right
But all "child" items are offset (indented) by the blue bar on the left, which I just recently made thicker
Re: clear visual distinction of the collapsed threads from single messages
Perhaps the current count (white text on blue background) isn't very "in your face", but then Gmail's or "all other apps'" isn't either.
For example -- this is "the best Windows mail app":
http://www.emclient.com/blog/introducing-conversations-139
Same thing, numbers on a grey background.
I am open to making that background (where it shows how many "children" a message has) brighter, and also have plans to make this color settable (just like read/unread background, etc). Maybe with the setting in place, I won't need to change the default color.
Re: user option to auto open the most recent msg in a convo group, when user taps on convo
This one makes sense to me -- just like there is now a setting to open an account's Inbox (from account list) rather than expand to show its folder list.
Post by: mikeone on November 08, 2015, 02:23:33 am
Quote
Re: clear visual distinction of the collapsed threads from single messagesKostya:
Perhaps the current count (white text on blue background) isn't very "in your face", but then Gmail's or "all other apps'" isn't either.
For example -- this is "the best Windows mail app":
http://www.emclient.com/blog/introducing-conversations-139
Same thing, numbers on a grey background.
I am open to making that background (where it shows how many "children" a message has) brighter, and also have plans to make this color settable (just like read/unread background, etc). Maybe with the setting in place, I won't need to change the default color.
My suggestion is to just mark these "parent messages" with the same vertical (blue) line on the left side - same as currently shown for an expanded conversation.
> unique view compared to other apps 8)
Post by: Kostya Vasilyev on November 08, 2015, 02:24:48 am
... which would make it really easy to mix up those two very different things (collapsed thread vs. expanded child).
Post by: mikeone on November 08, 2015, 02:38:54 am
Re: same vertical (blue) line on the left side - same as currently shown when the conversation is expandedNot really confusing for me, since an expanded thread is very noticeable marked by a wide (blue) bar on the top.
... which would make it really easy to mix up those two very different things (collapsed thread vs. expanded child).
> The purpose of the modification should rather be to distinguish a Parent message of a thread from "normal" Single messages.
But that's only my personal opinion.
Post by: StR on November 08, 2015, 06:13:01 am
Re: I would have made a slight offset of all the messages in the thread to the rightWhile writing that previous posting, I looked at the app again, thinking how large the indent should be... And I still had not noticed the indent.
But all "child" items are offset (indented) by the blue bar on the left, which I just recently made thicker
Just now, after reading your response, I looked again, and finally noticed it. So, from the legal point of view, yes, it is there... From the practical ...
Quote
Re: clear visual distinction of the collapsed threads from single messages
Perhaps the current count (white text on blue background) isn't very "in your face", but then Gmail's or "all other apps'" isn't either.
For example -- this is "the best Windows mail app":
http://www.emclient.com/blog/introducing-conversations-139
Same thing, numbers on a grey background.
I am open to making that background (where it shows how many "children" a message has) brighter, and also have plans to make this color settable (just like read/unread background, etc). Maybe with the setting in place, I won't need to change the default color.
Kostya, the point is not that much how the difference appears, but where. (I've noticed that you enhanced the contrast of that children-number indicator in this version.)
As I've written previously, - while I am quickly looking at the message list to see what messages might require my immediate attention (or any attention at all), I am looking at the left half (or even third) of the screen: That's where the senders (and the beginnings of the subjects) are. I am looking at the right half of the screen only if I need to figure out when actually the message arrived (if that is important for some reason).
Otherwise, I either look into the message of interest, or scroll further down.
Post by: papete on November 08, 2015, 10:13:42 am
With "Sent messages in smart folder" ENABLED, you will see:
- All messages from incoming folders
- All messages from sent folders
- The linked messages will be shown as linked, but any sent messages not linked to any incoming message will be shown too.
( meaning if you just sent a brand new message and it doesn't link with any others, you'll see this just sent message too )
With "Sent in smart folder" DISABLED, you will see:
- If "across folders" is also disabled -> just all incoming messages, no sent.
- If "across folders" is enabled -> all incoming messages, and just those sent messages that are linked up to those incoming messages.
( This can be somewhat slow to load on low-end devices, btw )
This makes perfect sense... I just didn't fully understand the logic that you just explained... Thanks!!
Post by: mikeone on November 08, 2015, 01:36:20 pm
@Kostya, @Paris Geek, @StR,Re: same vertical (blue) line on the left side - same as currently shown when the conversation is expanded
... which would make it really easy to mix up those two very different things (collapsed thread vs. expanded child).
> same vertical (blue) line on the left side - same as currently shown when the conversation is expanded
Not a good option - in my opinion :) for the same reason explained by Kostya.
I have a better (alternative) suggestion (after the color options are implemented, as I wrote in a previous post): use the icon to indicate that it's a conversation versus a single message:
- a blue line (square/round) around the icon
- a mix of inside messages icons
etc.
Well, I fully understand your arguments.
However, my (and StR"s) thoughts about the necessity for a better identification of "Parent messages" are slightly different:
1. There is always only one conversation expanded at the same time.
2. This one (expanded) conversation thread is clearly demarkated by a bride blue bar on the top of this conversation - including a message counter.
3. Expanding another conversation will automatically collaps the currently expanded conversation: the blue bar on the top and the blue lines on the left edge of each of these conversation messages are disappearing immediately.
4. Now, scrolling further (up or down) through the whole message list - as described by StR -, you will see only lots of (single) messages, no other (expanded) conversations.
5. Some of these messages are "Parent messages" of conversations, but the only (small) visual difference is the "Message counter" on the rught, which could be overlooked by the user:
> e. g. if at least one message is selected the green "Floating Action bar" on the right side will hide the "Message counter" and the user is not able to see these counters... at least on a phone.
I agree with all of you that it is no need for a repositioning of the "number of children" indicator.
But, I agree with StR and I also vote for a more visual indicator for "Parent messages" on the left edge.
However, Paris Geek's suggestion with a colored circle or square around the icons could be a good alternative to blue lines on the left edge.
I hope my description will clarify the background for this recommendation a little more.
Thanks in advance.
Mikeone
Post by: StR on November 08, 2015, 04:18:27 pm
Post by: mikeone on November 08, 2015, 04:30:48 pm
Just in case: I am not suggesting to move the indicator. .Yes, I know.
None of us wanted a repositioning of this counter.
I just added this statement in my previous post... :)
Post by: Kostya Vasilyev on November 08, 2015, 07:02:06 pm
Yes, I might use a "combined" contact image, this should make grouped messages really stand out.
Post by: mikeone on November 08, 2015, 07:27:55 pm
Re: use the icon to indicate that it's a conversationThank you Kostya. That should be a good solution.
Yes, I might use a "combined" contact image, this should make grouped messages really stand out.
Post by: Kostya Vasilyev on November 08, 2015, 07:32:14 pm
Post by: StR on November 08, 2015, 08:19:43 pm
Re: use the icon to indicate that it's a conversation
Yes, I might use a "combined" contact image, this should make grouped messages really stand out.
If I understand correctly what you mean by the "contact image", - this would not be a complete solution.
Here is what I've written earlier:
"However, after seeing the snapshots posted by paras.desai, I see that what plays a bigger role in that case is those "chips", as the collapsed threads are missing the letter inside the "chip", and that is a distinctive feature. When the chips are disabled, there is nothing in the primary field of view (left portion of the screen) that can help to differentiate quickly."
http://www.aqua-mail.com/forum/index.php?topic=4086.msg21637#msg21637
Any ideas for those who don't have a chip (on the screen or on the shoulder ;) )?
Post by: Kostya Vasilyev on November 08, 2015, 08:32:14 pm
What I'm having trouble understanding -- despite reading and re-reading -- is how is it possible to not see the "thread count" indicator on the right?
I'm not saying it in jest, and don't mean to imply that "the iPhone is fine, you're just holding it wrong".
Just something I honestly am having trouble understanding.
Post by: mikeone on November 08, 2015, 08:50:49 pm
What I'm having trouble understanding -- despite reading and re-reading -- is how is it possible to not see the "thread count" indicator on the right?Kostya:
I tried to describe one case in my previous post under #5:
"> e. g. if at least one message is selected the green "Floating Action bar" on the right side will hide the "Message counter" and the user is not able to see these counters... at least on a phone."
http://www.aqua-mail.com/forum/index.php?topic=4097.msg21751#msg21751
See attached two screenshots to show the problem:
>> the user really can't find ANY difference on the left side of the screen...
Post by: Kostya Vasilyev on November 08, 2015, 09:16:15 pm
Interesting - when there are so many moving parts - how they interact!
Post by: Fcasoli on November 11, 2015, 01:15:42 am
Post by: Kostya Vasilyev on November 11, 2015, 01:18:30 am
Think I'd rather keep working on email -- there are dozens of SMS apps out there!
Post by: Fcasoli on November 11, 2015, 08:56:07 am
Are you proposing I write an SMS app?Hi, yes, but not integrated with email client, I know BlackBerry Hub only to do it...
Think I'd rather keep working on email -- there are dozens of SMS apps out there!
Ciao
Watches: G-Shock Rangeman GW-9400 Black, Olive, Camouflage, GW-M5610
Post by: Kostya Vasilyev on November 11, 2015, 10:32:07 pm
(https://media.giphy.com/media/yQfAZSMmSMIWA/giphy.gif)
Post by: Iceman_jkh on November 12, 2015, 01:06:03 pm
SMS app???Yes, I've always wanted that.. also, please more weapon slots and 3D sound
(https://media.giphy.com/media/yQfAZSMmSMIWA/giphy.gif)
Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk