AquaMail Forum
English - Android => General Discussion => Topic started by: nadir husain on October 15, 2015, 02:13:56 pm
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hi, is there any feedback on how aquamail is performing on marshmallow? there are some reports that k9 users are having issues on doze mode. not syncing (fetching) or pushing. thanks. need to know if i should upgrade to a nexus 6p or stick to my note 4. it will be no fun if aqua is also having issues.
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Yes, I've seen your message:
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/k-9-mail/A_cF14avnzg/xsr_n1LpBwAJ
That's what Doze Mode is, by design.
It turns off scheduled events, "wake locks", and network connectivity, this is how Google made it work, intentionally.
They don't want apps "running" in Doze mode -- they want apps to work off of Google Cloud Messaging.
And they have no trouble enforcing this at system level, by "enforcing" I mean that an app can try (to call the functions), but it won't have any effect.
To a mail app, it means it has to be "cloud based" like TypeMail, MyMail, Outlook, passing your messages through their servers (not every user's cup of tea, but surprisingly few are even aware).
Gmail app will obviously work fine, with @gmail accounts, but I believe that IMAP and Exchange accounts will be affected by Doze mode too.
There are some ways to get around it, but it's very limited (e.g. scheduled events won't be fired more often than once per 15 minutes).
Personally, I'm watching the K9 discussion with great interest, to see what sort of "story" they come up with for their users.
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Thanks sir. Is there any way to turn doze mode off?
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There is a way to exclude an app from Doze Mode:
http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2015/10/android-6-0-marshmallow-thoroughly-reviewed/9/
But it's limited, does not fully revert to old behavior.
And this is intentional on Google's part too, please see this comment from one of Android's lead engineers:
https://code.google.com/p/android-developer-preview/issues/detail?id=2225#c11
In addition, the documentation is inconsistent and there may (or may not) have been changes in 6.0 "final" compared to last developer preview.
This comment, about Android SIP being affected too, is very telling:
https://code.google.com/p/android-developer-preview/issues/detail?id=2225#c58
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In short, the way I see things, Google made a decision that seems questionable to me (and other devs), and seems completely right to them -- and so they're not giving the device owner a way to undo it completely, even if he/she wants to.
Oh, and I guess there are business reasons too.
An app that requires Google Cloud Messaging to function won't run on devices that don't have GCM (e.g. Amazon, Blackberry, off-brand manufacturers).
Maybe that's part of the plan.
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so the only solution, i am guessing, is to keep shaking your phone 😃
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Any "automatic Android phone shakers" on KickStarter yet? :)
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now thats an idea :D
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Google (Android)= "where we want you to go today".
:(
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Not so fast with KickStarter, though...
https://code.google.com/p/android-developer-preview/issues/detail?id=2225#c60
According to http://developer.android.com/training/monitoring-device-state/doze-standby.html, moving the device should end Doze.
This is not happening in my tests (Nexus 5).
I have to switch the screen on to end Doze.
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These problems on doze mode were to be expected (... by design).
.. Thank you, Google 8)
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google has really messed up big time. i guess as more and more users upgrade to 6 the screams will get louder. still doubt if google will hear them. they have an ecosystem that is a virtual monopoly. i wonder if the folks at apple are silently laughing now
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Re: wonder if the folks at apple are silently laughing now
I have an iPhone (which I don't use).
It gets better battery time than Android...
.... unless I actually use it, then the battery is dominated by the screen. Same as with Android, actually.
It has very limited capabilities for apps working in the background (e.g. push is only for iCloud accounts).
Which is about what you get with Android 6.0, same compromises (except iOS has had them from the start).
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Meanwhile:
I haven't seen confirmations that the "mobile radio active" battery drain is actually fixed in 6.0 (other than a comment by Google employee in the bug tracker, saying that it will be fixed in the "final" 6.0).
And there appears to be a new battery drain issue in 6.0, related to WiFi (too lazy to find the link).
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I would prefer " mobile radio active" to doze anytime. I don't mind charging my battery as long as I can get my apps to work the way I want to. Seems doze is going to cut android flexibility to a point where users might contemplate ios or even windows .
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If I wanted to save battery so bad I would go back to Nokia 3310 or the like. Besides there are power banks available that can charge a smartphone 3 or 4 times. So....
BTW sir what is the " inactive" time before phone " dozes" ?
Thanks and best wishes
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Re: BTW sir what is the " inactive" time before phone " dozes" ?
https://developer.android.com/about/versions/marshmallow/android-6.0-changes.html
If a user unplugs a device and leaves it stationary, with its screen off, for a period of time, the device goes into Doze mode
No specific time given, and perhaps (my guess) it can even vary based on make / model.
Based on this -- empirical, and from a specific device and system software version -- it's about 2 hours:
https://code.google.com/p/android-developer-preview/issues/detail?id=2225#c41
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many thanks, for your time and your app. best wishes
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i wonder if the folks at apple are silently laughing now
Both Apple and Google have their own agendas that are ultimately driven by the bottom line. All "goodness" and "evilness" are important only to the extent of attractting vs. turning away paying users.
And forcing people and apps into the particular ecosystem is what seems to be the trend for all the giants.
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They never made a secret out of seeing Android primarily as a platform for their own use.
Maybe the current thinking is that their own apps are enough for everyone (or almost everyone): Gmail, Google+, Keep, ...
Wonder if this situation gets picked up by Android news sites -- or if they're too busy playing with the new "permissions on first use".
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Oh, and I guess there are business reasons too.
An app that requires Google Cloud Messaging to function won't run on devices that don't have GCM (e.g. Amazon, Blackberry, off-brand manufacturers).
Maybe that's part of the plan.
Do the "business reasons" include data-mining non-Gmail email? Are actual messages passed through GCM or only delivery triggers of some sort? I started a thread at CrackBerry about this, in response to this thread, in which I assumed, perhaps wrongly, that Google's servers would see any emails to apps that use GCM. Is this correct?
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Hi,
I don't think that Google will see any data from the app's content. However, I'm not sure.
Maybe AquaMail's Privacy policy could be helpful to clarify some things regarding data protection:
http://www.aqua-mail.com/?page_id=1878
Regards
Mikeone
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Thanks. As you may know, the first BlackBerry Android device, the Priv, is due to be released soon. Although BlackBerry's own OS, BB10, hasn't been successful in the marketplace, BlackBerry has a reputation for security. The email "app" in BB10 is the Hub, embedded in the OS itself. The Hub will migrate to Android in some form, but BlackBerry fans are understandably interested in whether this migration will affect the security of their email. This Marshmallow issue raises red flags, at least for those of us who don't understand the subtleties of email handling.
I alternate between a OnePlus One and a BlackBerry Passport, so I have a foot in both worlds.
Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk
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Hi,
I don't think that Google will see any data from the app's content. However, I'm not sure.
I tried to look it up, but was unable to find Google's policy on the privacy of information in the Cloud. May be it is somewhere in the developer's agreement ...
I suspect Google has technical ability to parse all the communication that goes through the cloud. And I assume they do that.
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Hi,
I don't think that Google will see any data from the app's content. However, I'm not sure.
I tried to look it up, but was unable to find Google's policy on the privacy of information in the Cloud. May be it is somewhere in the developer's agreement ...
I suspect Google has technical ability to parse all the communication that goes through the cloud. And I assume they do that.
You assume correctly. They can and at least might look at anything stored on their servers. I couldn't find a Privacy Statement specifically regarding Google Cloud Services either, but this from their generic Terms of Service pretty much settles things:
Our automated systems analyze your content (including emails) to provide you personally relevant product features, such as customized search results, tailored advertising, and spam and malware detection. This analysis occurs as the content is sent, received, and when it is stored.
Not good, but expected. But unlike many other companies Google is fairly up-front about what they're doing and how they make money. They make available tools (Google Dashboard) to protect your privacy and opt-out of about everything.
In return, we get access to a lotta free stuff. I'm guilty of using Gmail, Google Drive, Google Voice (terrific, amazing for free) etc. What the heck...it's a good deal.
We should be concerned about privacy, of course. I consider the AquaMail Privacy Statement important and something others should strive for. But we have limited control over our information. I've written about perceived privacy and the reality of it before:
http://androidforums.com/index.php?posts/6926097
Android since v1.0. Linux since 2001
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But the question is, WHAT goes through GCM? The entire email or just an instruction to tell the phone to collect it's email from somewhere else?
Obviously if it's a gmail account the email is on Google's servers anyway, and nothing is changed with Marshmallow. But what's going to happen with email on some other imap service, going to some other email app on Android? Marshmallow is going to make it impossible for the app to work right without GCM but that doesn't mean the mail itself goes through GCM. I'd be interested to know one way or the other.
Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk
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They make available tools (Google Dashboard) to protect your privacy and opt-out of about everything.
It only looks that way. From what I can tell (and I just went through that Dashboard), - you can only opt out from some things on the surface.
E.g. you cannot opt out from your e-mail being scanned (read: its content is stored and used on Google's internal servers).
In return, we get access to a lotta free stuff.
It is not free. You are the product (in several ways{*}) for Google.
It might sound like it is just semantics, but it is not. The psychology of the society should change: it is not free. (Cf.: the farm animals are getting their food "for free" at a cattle farm.)
Moreover, in many cases you do not even have a choice of paying money for using those services and not being the product.
Sooner or later, the society will realize that information is a product that should be regulated more tightly, including limits on how long companies are allowed to use your information. Think: there is a period after which bankruptcy is "forgotten" (7-10 years in the US), there is a statute of limitations for many crimes... But any personal information can be stored and used by a company forever.
Anyway, this is getting off topic in this forum...
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{*}
1. Your views is a product: Google sells ads because there are views.
2. Your information (habits, what you do, where you shop, what you buy, what you eat, where you eat, etc.) is a product: Google uses that information to advertise things to your more efficiently.
... and at this late hour of a long day I feel I am forgetting something else here...
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This IS getting off-topic, but it's an interesting conversation, so let me add a bit more before cutting it loose...
@tmoody:
To your question "What goes through GCS?" I don't know exactly, but I think you have to assume everything does and proceed accordingly. Even if GCS doesn't scan everything, likely a 3-letter government agency, foreign government, commercial enterprise...I just assume that everything is scanned by someone. That's life in the 21st century. If you haven't and can deal with my writing, read my short little rant about this linked at the bottom of my previous post.
@StR:
I have no real argument with what you said. You speak the truth. You just broke it down farther than I took it.
So I would only say that I probably should have added some qualifiers to what I said. Basically, something like what you said. That Google offers tools to keep our personal information - meaning phone numbers, email address, home address, age browsing and buying habits etc, you know what I mean - to keep that information superficially private.
Of course I realize that Google stuff is not totally free, we just exchange some information for software and services instead if hard-earned cash. By free I just meant that no cash or effort is required for the so-called 'free' stuff. And some of that stuff is pretty good.
OK, I'm the product for Google. But I'm not giving away or allowing public access to any information that isn't out there anyway. I'm careful about the software I use (hench AquaMail) run SE Linux, have a reasonably secure browser, carefully set privacy settings, etc. I take privacy seriously but don't wear a tinfoil hat. As a result of using reasonable caution, even having been online since 1986, using some Google stuff and other services, searching my name pulls up little information. I've managed to stay fairly non-existant to the public.
I',m not saying everything is OK and as it should be, but Google is at least offering some control and they make it easy to access and use, even encourage doing so. That's more than you can say about most other companies.
IOW, I don't consider Google to be my buddy, watching my back. But at least they're not the attack dog that some companies are.
Android since v1.0. Linux since 2001
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Hi,
Here you will find this new Quick Start Guide, Android 6.0 Marshmallow:
https://play.google.com/store/books/details/Google_Inc_Android_Quick_Start_Guide_Android_6_0_M?id=tu6bCgAAQBAJ
Table of contents:
Welcome to Android
About Android 6.0, Marshmallow
What’s new in 6.0
Get started
Personalize your device
Customize your Home screens
Manage your settings
Display
Sound and notification
Google Now
Use the keyboard
Enter & edit text
Gesture Typing
Keyboard dictionaries
Type by speaking
Control access
Manage accounts on your device
Share your device with other users
Security
Backup & reset
Pay with your phone
Share & store content on your device
Android Beam
Google Cast
File storage
SD card storage
Dual-SIM card support
Screenshots
Printing
Try some apps
Play Store
Gmail
Camera
Photos
Contacts
Hangouts
Calendar
FM Radio
Accessibility
Android on watches, TVs, and cars
Android Wear
Android TV
Android Auto
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Do the "business reasons" include data-mining non-Gmail email?
By business reasons I meant:
App developers are given a very strong incentive to make their apps *dependent* on GCM, so they work smoothly on 6.0 (including push mail).
GCM is not part of baseline Android open source code -- just like Google Play Services or Google+ isn't.
So now that the app requires a device with GCM -- it won't run on a Blackberry or Amazon or or an off-brand device.
Are actual messages passed through GCM or only delivery triggers of some sort? I started a thread at CrackBerry about this, in response to this thread, in which I assumed, perhaps wrongly, that Google's servers would see any emails to apps that use GCM. Is this correct?
No, or "not necessarily" and even if they did, GCM won't know that it's emails.
GCM is the basic transport for a web service (read: whatever's backing up a cloud based mail app) to send "tickles" into an Android app.
This is something like "hey app on device #13234593458, there are new messages in account #83904859, wake up and catch up".
The "catch up" would be the app on the device talking to the cloud mail app developer's cloud servers to fetch actual message content -- not to Google's servers.
Now, this is still within the "cloud based mail app" paradigm -- where the mail app's cloud service has to have access to the user's accounts, and the user's email passes through this cloud service (and maybe even indexed, or stored there for some length of time).
This is not my or my users' preference (as far as I know).
I'm just going to see how this plays out, Google never backed up on any Android changes before, but who knows... If only putting an app on the "exclude from doze mode" list would completely restore pre-6.0 semantics, I'd be happy and so would be many other app developers, I think.
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In the meantime, with Android 6 on my Nexus 5, Aquamail has sadly just become the biggest battery drain on my phone - using IMAP push or not, using battery optimization or not.
It's a real shame, because it's a great bit of software, and you're right: I don't want my emails going through Google's cloud.
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Re: Aquamail has sadly just become the biggest battery drain on my phone
I'd be surprised if it used the battery more than with previous Android versions.
- What is its %% in system settings -> battery stats?
- What is the time since charge?
- Most important: if you "tap into" AquaMail details on that screen, what are the reported times for "Keep awake" and "Mobile radio active"?
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Re: Aquamail has sadly just become the biggest battery drain on my phone
I'd be surprised if it used the battery more than with previous Android versions.
- What is its %% in system settings -> battery stats?
- What is the time since charge?
- Most important: if you "tap into" AquaMail details on that screen, what are the reported times for "Keep awake" and "Mobile radio active"?
I have now turned off "scheduled sync" and I'm just relying on IMAP push, and it seems to have reduced battery drain considerably. I'll try again with scheduled sync tomorrow and get you some figures.
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In the meantime, with Android 6 on my Nexus 5, Aquamail has sadly just become the biggest battery drain on my phone - using IMAP push or not, using battery optimization or not.
It's a real shame, because it's a great bit of software, and you're right: I don't want my emails going through Google's cloud.
Same here and it seems to get worse and worse for each update :-/
Every time I start aquamail it only takes a few minutes before my phone starts to get very hot and within a very short time Aqua-mail is at the top of my battery usage list (usually with several % more than the next item in the list).
It seems to also get triggered if I switch between wifi and mobile data or between wifi networks or even sometimes when switching celluar network.
In the end I had to stop using Aquamail and switch to another email client (I tested a whole bunch but none of them luckily seems to have the same battery hogging problem af A-M does).
Hope this problem will eventually get fixed in aqua-mail, but looking through the threads at this forum does not give me much hope :-(
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Re: a few minutes before my phone starts to get very hot
This alone is quite amazing.
Did you perhaps set up the app sync thousands and thousands of messages? The "messages to sync" setting?
The default is 25 - 50, but the setting goes to a few thousand -- for users who only check mail a few times a day.
However, if you've set the app to sync "thousands" of messages every few minutes, or -- worse yet -- enabled push mail, then, you know, you're basically telling it to keep working all the time.
Just a guess, but something to check.
Re: looking through the threads at this forum does not give me much hope
Did you somehow get the impression that I don't ever fix bugs?