AquaMail Forum

English => General Discussion => Topic started by: Kostya Vasilyev on January 09, 2015, 04:08:53 pm

Title: Let's discuss: push mail for Exchange
Post by: Kostya Vasilyev on January 09, 2015, 04:08:53 pm
Discussion started on Google+:

https://plus.google.com/111661559774274998746/posts/H729tvNuC14

Short recap:

---

Looking at push mail for Exchange. EWS (Exchange Web Services, the license-free protocol used in AquaMail) provides three (3) options. And looks like all of them were carefully designed to have show-stopper deficiencies for mobile app use, pushing (no pun intended) developers towards ActiveSync and its licensing requirements.

--

I'm kind of starting to lean towards a cloud based component (web service) that would make EWS push protocol more suitable for  a mobile device. A proxy with some smarts (middleware).

Wonder how many users a basic $25 Linode VPS would be able to support (time to learn Go?). Likely to be more cost effective than an AS license, and about an equal amount of work, but much cleaner as far as actual technology pieces go (later I might think about using this for a more efficient IMAP push, too).

Tradeoffs:

1) I'd need to transmit the user's login / password to this cloud server (but they won't be stored there, as with BlueMail / Cloud Magic / My.com)

2) Exchange 2010, 2013, Office 365, Exchange Online (which is Office 365 without Office proper). At least initially.

This would be for push mail only, the current EWS code would work as it does now, without needing this web service.

---

And not to forget: EWS is already there in Aqua, not as feature-full as I or some users would like ("some" because not everyone cares about push mail or even calendar sync) -- but it is there, working, now -- so it's natural to build on that.
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Title: Re: Let's discuss: push mail for Exchange
Post by: beerlao on January 10, 2015, 08:59:58 pm
I consider Exchange services as a professional feature. And in a professional environment I consider transmitting my credentials to a cloud service as a showstopper. So that would really stop me from using that feature and I would stick with EWS.

Gesendet von meinem SM-G900F mit Tapatalk

Title: Re: Let's discuss: push mail for Exchange
Post by: Kostya Vasilyev on January 10, 2015, 09:03:34 pm
Thank you for your feedback.

I wonder how it works out for apps like MyMail, CloudMagic, BlueMail (and maybe others I'm not aware of).

Users just don't seem to care -- for personal of corporate mail...
Title: Re: Let's discuss: push mail for Exchange
Post by: Kostya Vasilyev on January 10, 2015, 10:12:16 pm
Those cloud apps 1) store user credentials *persistently* and 2) store actual messages (for a limited time, but you can never tell how quickly they detect when a user deleted his account / uninstalled the app).

You're completely right, it would be an optional capability.

I'm also wondering -- if "a mail app from A Real Company Inc" is perceived differently from "a mail app from some guy (or a gal?) with an unpronounceable name"?

Except there already was a case of MyMail's privacy policy not being very clear about how they're cloud based (supposedly fixed by now) -- and that's a "A Real Company Inc.".

Anyway, I am grateful for feedback here, including of the "not acceptable to me" variety, that's valuable -- and not trying to change anyone's mind -- just thinking aloud :)
Title: Re: Let's discuss: push mail for Exchange
Post by: Kostya Vasilyev on January 11, 2015, 01:08:02 am
Yes, that's kind of what I'm thinking.

It will optional (unlike in those apps I listed above) and I'll have a popup explanation or a web site page that explains it.
Title: Re: Let's discuss: push mail for Exchange
Post by: beerlao on January 11, 2015, 09:28:03 am
I believe that it might also relate to your cultural background. I am German and over here we are very concerned about privacy. So other than you said, we distrust big companies even more than a well known and "responsible" developer like you. I personally don't like the cloud hype where I have to share every word document with Microsoft One Drive. And I never bought a nexus, because they don't take SD cards and Google just wants you to store your data in their cloud.

So,  I personally trust you much more than I trust Google or Microsoft, but I would feel most comfortable when I would not have to share sensible data with anyone. Above that, our corporate privacy policy would not allow me to share my credentials with third parties, and of course, the only exchange service I'm using is my corporate exchange mail ;-)

But as I said, your ews implementation works very well for me, so I will keep using Aqua Mail as my favorite mail app :-)

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Title: Re: Let's discuss: push mail for Exchange
Post by: beerlao on January 11, 2015, 10:25:27 am
Well, to be honest I do not know about the limitations ews implies, but of course features like calendar and contacts integration and maybe switching on and off automatic responses would suit me very well. I'm using nine for the more sophisticated exchange stuff, so actually I'm quite happy with both apps.

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Title: Re: Let's discuss: push mail for Exchange
Post by: stevealb on January 11, 2015, 03:34:07 pm
I also use AM for most of my exchange email and Nine for the things AM still cannot do, such as opening up a calendar invite and viewing it in the calendar to determine how to respond. Push email is critical for my needs, and right now I have AM set to check email every 3 minutes which uses more battery life. It would also be best if the calendar invite that comes in the email was embedded in the email and not a separate attachment. So, for me, calendar integration is very important. As for cloud based storage, I also am against its use, even temporarily. Having said that, AM is the best email client I have ever used, and would like it to be my sole email client. I appreciate everything Kostya has done and especially appreciate this discussion to see how AM can best meet its users needs.

Bravo Kostya!

NB: I would be willing to pay additional money to have Activesync in AM.
Title: Re: Let's discuss: push mail for Exchange
Post by: onlyfor.foren on January 12, 2015, 01:04:56 am
Above that, our corporate privacy policy would not allow me to share my credentials with third parties, and of course, the only exchange service I'm using is my corporate exchange mail ;-)

But as I said, your ews implementation works very well for me, so I will keep using Aqua Mail as my favorite mail app :-)

I agree
Title: Re: Let's discuss: push mail for Exchange
Post by: lexluthor on March 08, 2015, 02:12:43 am
Just started using Aqua and purchased today.  Very nice app.  Was a bit surprised that there's no push support for Exchange.  I didn't realize there's some licensing involved to MS for that.

I don't see any recent posts on this, but looks like the dev is working on a solution.  Is there some sort of ETA on a solution?
Title: Re: Let's discuss: push mail for Exchange
Post by: Kostya Vasilyev on March 08, 2015, 09:28:26 pm
If you read the above discussion, the responses to my proposal for implementing push with a cloud component -- are all along the lines of "no, I will not use it, for security / privacy reasons".

And so, why would I work on something that nobody wants to use?

For an example of what happens when you license ActiveSync from MS -- read Play comments for an app called Boxer -- "Why the ... do I need to pay more for Exchange? 1 star!!! Too bad can't rate with zero stars!!! That'd teach them!!!". That's not inspiring either.
Title: Re: Let's discuss: push mail for Exchange
Post by: lexluthor on March 08, 2015, 11:25:14 pm
Yes, that's kind of what I'm thinking.

It will optional (unlike in those apps I listed above) and I'll have a popup explanation or a web site page that explains it.
Your last post in this thread certainly read to me like you were working on something that would be optional.  Based on your reply to me earlier today, I guess i must have misunderstood this post i quoted.
Title: Re: Let's discuss: push mail for Exchange
Post by: Kostya Vasilyev on March 09, 2015, 12:41:48 am
Sorry, I should have used "would be" and "would have", not "will be" and "will have".
Title: Re: Let's discuss: push mail for Exchange
Post by: lexluthor on March 09, 2015, 01:21:59 am
Sorry, I should have used "would be" and "would have", not "will be" and "will have".
Fair enough. Currently i don't need push, so aqua works for me.
Title: Re: Let's discuss: push mail for Exchange
Post by: horizon on March 09, 2015, 09:59:10 pm
Does Touchdown also store or send/receive password via 3rd party cloud server? I don't think this was ever an issue that was brought up in the past, it seems to be just a recently discovered problem with all new email clients that support exchange.
If not, what is that app doing that's different than other apps you mentioned?

I really like AquaMail's interface, and all the recent additions like customizing the screen, filtering options, multiple accounts are all great improvements, but lack of true exchange support is killing it for me since I rely on constant email communication to do my job. I am trying to migrate from Blackberry.
Title: Re: Let's discuss: push mail for Exchange
Post by: Kostya Vasilyev on March 09, 2015, 10:06:49 pm
TouchDown uses ActiveSync. So does Nine, Moxier Mail, and stock (and vendor-modified) Email apps.

ActiveSync was designed with mobile devices in mind, it doesn't have any issues wrt. push + mobile device. EWS was not, and it does.
Title: Re: Let's discuss: push mail for Exchange
Post by: SanderNijdam on March 13, 2015, 01:53:48 pm
I just had a crazy idea: wouldn't it be possible to make a 'combined' IMAP-EWS account? This would be an account that uses both the IMAP and EWS functionality of an exchange server. It would use IMAP for the push-notifications and EWS for all the other functionality.

Now I'm really on the fence: switching from IMAP to EWS means gaining a lot of functionality but also losing the push. I could keep both active but this is not so practical. Combining them could be an ideal solution/workaround.
Title: Re: Let's discuss: push mail for Exchange
Post by: Kostya Vasilyev on March 13, 2015, 05:46:41 pm
Um, I can't even imagine how that would work...
Title: Re: Let's discuss: push mail for Exchange
Post by: SanderNijdam on March 13, 2015, 06:56:22 pm
Um, I can't even imagine how that would work...

One account in Aqua Mail of the type 'EWS-IMAP combined' with separate server entry pages for IMAP and EWS. EWS is then used to get all the folders. Each folder is then checked to be available also on the IMAP-server. Then for the folders that are available both on EWS and IMAP it is possible for the user to check 'IMAP push'. Then AquaMail uses IMAP-push to wait for new messages. When a new message is detected, that folder is synchronized using EWS. The non-IMAP folders (like the calendar) are regularly checked like normal EWS-folders.
I could imagine this would work.
Title: Re: Let's discuss: push mail for Exchange
Post by: zspb on March 20, 2015, 11:12:10 am
Buying a server from Online.net or some other similar service is cheaper and much more safer. (You could rent the 16 euro Avoton server. Much more powerful.)

You could use encryption with this setup, and enter passcode via KVM.
(You dont reboot servers that often anyway.)

For backups, Google's new cheap cold storage would come in handy.
(Since the 16 euro machine comes with a single drive only.)
Maybe you could introduce a 1$/month fee for this service.
Paypal and Google Payments both provide tools for this.

I would be interested for sure.
(Heck, throw in a discount like 10$/year. Few people, and you are not working with a loss.)
Title: Re: Let's discuss: push mail for Exchange
Post by: SanderNijdam on March 23, 2015, 07:30:18 pm
I could imagine this would work.

I have recently started using EWS and am now even more convinced it makes sense to have such a combined account. I found that the data usage of EWS is a lot higher than of IMAP-push. I use some 30 folders and found that it costs me a few 100 MB per day when using EWS to check them every 5 minutes. With IMAP-push this was much lower and instant instead of the 5 minutes. This data usage is no problem when in reach of WIFI but otherwise it can get expensive.
Although I love the extra functionality of EWS, I think I will switch back so not to be surprised by too high data usage.

For testing these kind of things it would be nice to have an option to (temporary) disable accounts. As far as I could find it is now impossible to disable an account except by deleting it.
Title: Re: Let's discuss: push mail for Exchange
Post by: stevealb on March 23, 2015, 07:49:21 pm
The combined EWS and imap would only work on those exchange servers that are set to support both. My exchange server is not set to support imap. I agree that push is essential and would pay extra to have Activesync, notwithstanding the strict policy requirements.
Title: Re: Let's discuss: push mail for Exchange
Post by: Kostya Vasilyev on March 23, 2015, 10:52:32 pm
Re: data usage - EWS is a very verbose protocol, in ways more than one.

Re: disabling accounts as necessary - an easy way to do this is with Tasker, AquaMail has built-in support for it, including being able to change per-account settings.
Title: Re: Let's discuss: push mail for Exchange
Post by: Tanchico on March 26, 2015, 06:20:11 pm
I may have posted this in another thread.
My need for Exchange Push in AM went from "required" to "nice to have" and now "I don't care"

I have an elegant but simple solution and it's been working flawlessly;
 - Set AM to sync with Exchange only once a day
 - Install some other email that supports ActiveSync, just for notifcations (most are garbage compared to AM)
 - Use Tasker with some plugins to check notifiations and trigger AM to sync my Exchange account

Done!

I added some Tasker code to turn off the redundant nofitications but it's still pretty basic and just works. I'm getting dozens of Exchange emails daily, I get them within seconds and my AM battery drain is hardly measurable.
Title: Re: Let's discuss: push mail for Exchange
Post by: Kostya Vasilyev on March 26, 2015, 10:02:05 pm
@Tanchico, that's really impressive.
Title: Re: Let's discuss: push mail for Exchange
Post by: SanderNijdam on March 27, 2015, 07:03:04 pm
I may have posted this in another thread.
My need for Exchange Push in AM went from "required" to "nice to have" and now "I don't care"

I have an elegant but simple solution and it's been working flawlessly;
 - Set AM to sync with Exchange only once a day
 - Install some other email that supports ActiveSync, just for notifcations (most are garbage compared to AM)
 - Use Tasker with some plugins to check notifiations and trigger AM to sync my Exchange account

Done!

I added some Tasker code to turn off the redundant nofitications but it's still pretty basic and just works. I'm getting dozens of Exchange emails daily, I get them within seconds and my AM battery drain is hardly measurable.
Sounds like an excellent idea. I installed Tasker and am experimenting with the stock email client as 'notifier'. This works, however, it does not give a notification when an email arrives in another folder (by server-side rules). Which client do you use for the notifications?
And how do you turn off the redundant notifications?
Title: Re: Let's discuss: push mail for Exchange
Post by: starbuckk on April 05, 2015, 07:13:09 am
An interesting thread.  I have been wishing for a single app that supports EWS, EAS and IMAP so I could have an all in one app.  But after reading this thread I understand why you are not supporting ActiveSync.  Aquamail is the ONLY app I have found that supports EWS (at least with any degree of quality).

This thread has given me a few ideas about how to use it better. EWS is critical to me because of dealing with some clients that either do not allow contractors access to EAS, or demand too much power.

Thanks for a great app!
Title: Re: Let's discuss: push mail for Exchange
Post by: OCS on April 07, 2015, 12:05:09 am
I just discovered AquaMail which I'm please with so far, and came looking for info on Exchange push.  For me I'm not sure if it's a deal-breaker, but it's close.  I'll have to see how it goes.  I would certainly greatly prefer ActiveSync, and like another poster mentioned, I would pay extra for it.

In regards to the quote of some guy bashing Boxer because of paying more for Exchange, that sucks.  What about offering another app in the Play store, AquaMail + ActiveSync, with a higher price and explanation about licensing costs?
Title: Re: Let's discuss: push mail for Exchange
Post by: Kostya Vasilyev on April 07, 2015, 01:18:18 am
- No ActiveSync

- No push, since "Kostya Vasilyev" just doesn't sound as nice as "XYZ Inc., we sure will encrypt your password".

I don't have the resources to offer two separate apps, and anyway, not sure how it would be any different from the Boxer case --

-- users would still need to pay if they wanted ActiveSync, and then it would be same old "how come, the built-in Gmail app works with my corporate mail and it's free, hey, you hear me, idiot developer, it's free and preinstalled".
Title: Re: Let's discuss: push mail for Exchange
Post by: stevealb on April 07, 2015, 03:49:00 pm
No push? That's too bad, as it is a requirement for me. I was holding out with AM, hoping that you would find a solution to push without activesync. Since you are now abandoning push altogether, I must find a different solution than AM for my exchange account. It's a shame, because in most respects, AM is the best mobile email client out there. But without push, I must find another alternative.
Title: Re: Let's discuss: push mail for Exchange
Post by: Kostya Vasilyev on April 07, 2015, 08:11:31 pm
Surprised? Why?

This whole thread is full of "no, I will not use a cloud based solution even if someone held a gun to my head".

Why should I spend the time to develop something that nobody wants to use?

And about AS, I've always been clear that I chose EWS instead, and never held back explaining why.

My turn to be surprised.
Title: Re: Let's discuss: push mail for Exchange
Post by: stevealb on April 07, 2015, 08:59:32 pm
I don't remember saying I was surprised, just disappointed. You have an amazing email client that just falls short of my exchange needs. 
Title: Re: Let's discuss: push mail for Exchange
Post by: BPretzel on April 09, 2015, 10:12:31 pm
I am not sure if I have missed the point or not.... Do most exchange accounts support IMAP? My Office365 account does and I have been "playing" with Aqua Mail. Like many of the correspondents here, message push is quite important to me but I also want to take advantage of the benefitsthat Exchange can bring (even with EWS).

So, here is my work around: I have set up my Office365 account twice - once as an Exchange account with EWS, set never to sync and excluded from the Smart Folder, and once as an IMAP account (using STARTTLS and ports 143 for in and 25 for out). I am basically using the IMAP for the finer control and push mail that it gives me but the Exchange versions should I want to take advantage of the server side support (eg searching my on-line address book etc). I get a lot more options to tune my account in IMAP so that is the one I am syncing and using most - indeed, I may drop the EWS one entirely if I find I do not use it enough...
This is not the most elegant work around but it does work (apart from the occasional clash between the two copies of the same account with different protocols - and of course my unread message count (all accounts) goes a bit haywire) ... sort of.
It strikes me that perhaps something similar (but much neater) could be implemented in the next update to give apparent push e-mail and some of the nicer IMAP features whilst also offering EWS (ie entirely hiding on version of the account and only triggering it for specific EWS related options)? Or maybe I am just lucky that (my) Office365 seems to support both protocols?
Best wishes, Boris.
Title: Re: Let's discuss: push mail for Exchange
Post by: Kostya Vasilyev on April 09, 2015, 10:25:54 pm
Yes, Exchange (and Office 365 in particular) does support IMAP and it even has IMAP IDLE (push mail).

The drawback is -- there are some Exchange specific things not accessible with IMAP, that is, the recently added Calendar sync and the already existing Contact lookup (including personal address book and corporate directory).

Your workaround is just fine for someone like me, but most users want it to "just work", oh well.
Title: Re: Let's discuss: push mail for Exchange
Post by: BPretzel on April 10, 2015, 02:13:19 pm
Yes, Exchange (and Office 365 in particular) does support IMAP and it even has IMAP IDLE (push mail).

The drawback is -- there are some Exchange specific things not accessible with IMAP, that is, the recently added Calendar sync and the already existing Contact lookup (including personal address book and corporate directory).

Your workaround is just fine for someone like me, but most users want it to "just work", oh well.

Update. I appear, the way I have set it up, to run in to problems with the IMAP office365 account. It works fine immediately after installation and after reediting (but actually not changing) the account settings but then runs in to trouble trying to download complete messages or respond to them. I get error messages of the type:
"Error loading complete message.
 Error connecting."

Of course this might be totally unrelated to anything in AM but I suspect the practice of having two connections to a single account is perhaps not so good! I will try investigating further - and maybe making the EWS account the main version and sync only the inbox with minimal caching in IMAP version - and will also try justy running the IMAP account without the EWS copy to see how that works but if you have any suggestions - I would be most grateful to hear them!

Best wishes, Boris.
Title: Re: Let's discuss: push mail for Exchange
Post by: Kostya Vasilyev on April 10, 2015, 08:02:04 pm
Not to question what you're seeing, but both IMAP and EWS allow multiple concurrent connections from same or different devices.
Title: Re: Let's discuss: push mail for Exchange
Post by: stevealb on April 12, 2015, 09:39:58 pm
Hi Kostya,

What is your vision for email on EWS? Is that what you're focusing on next?
Title: Re: Let's discuss: push mail for Exchange
Post by: Kostya Vasilyev on April 13, 2015, 12:01:39 am
Steve, not sure I understand the question...

Email for EWS? Aqua has had email for EWS for about 18 months, what am I missing?

No, I'm not going to shift the app's focus to Exchange at the expense of other types of mail accounts (IMAP) if that's what you're asking. If not, please clarify.
Title: Re: Let's discuss: push mail for Exchange
Post by: stevealb on April 13, 2015, 02:44:06 am
I was just asking if you're going to expand any of the options in email on exchange, such as categories for email, working on the appearance, push, etc.
Title: Re: Let's discuss: push mail for Exchange
Post by: Kostya Vasilyev on April 13, 2015, 11:50:05 pm
>> categories for email

Haven't though of that, so not in the near / midterm

>> working on the appearance

Um, can you clarify on that too?

"Make emails look exactly like in Outlook"? :)

>> push

Good idea. I'm going to create a forum topic and throw out some thoughts on push for Exchange.

I have this idea of using a cloud service to make EWS push more suitable for mobile devices, will post details there.

Oh wait, didn't I already create a topic for that? :)
Title: Re: Let's discuss: push mail for Exchange
Post by: chris3g on April 15, 2015, 06:51:16 pm
I'm not sure if the decision has already been made, but i personally would consider using a cloud-based service to get push mail delivered for my EWS account.
Title: Re: Let's discuss: push mail for Exchange
Post by: chris3g on April 15, 2015, 07:45:29 pm
I'm not sure if the decision has already been made, but i personally would consider using a cloud-based service to get push mail delivered for my EWS account.
And do you accept to pay a monthly fee of 1 dollar (or more) to get it?
Yes, probably no more than ~ $30 yearly.
Title: Re: Let's discuss: push mail for Exchange
Post by: Kostya Vasilyev on April 15, 2015, 10:43:33 pm
Ah, hello, I think that makes you the first one :)

Message threading / conversation is certainly higher priority to me, but if there is enough interest by the time I finish that...

I'd also like to point out that I'm thinking that this cloud service 1) would not persistently store or index message content and 2) would not persistently store the user's credentials (both of these are different from how "cloud centric" apps appear to work, Outlook, BlueMail, etc.)

So even if the service gets broken into (we all know it happens even to large companies) -- the credentials won't leak.
Title: Re: Let's discuss: push mail for Exchange
Post by: mikeone on April 16, 2015, 12:19:33 am
I think this decision has already been taken by Kostya.  See one of his previous posts in this thread:
http://www.aqua-mail.com/forum/index.php?topic=3195.msg16901#msg16901

> If you are preferring a cloud based mail service then how about using CloudMagic or a similar mail app ...?  :o
Title: Re: Let's discuss: push mail for Exchange
Post by: mobamoba on May 13, 2015, 06:51:44 pm
I'm not sure how badly this would affect battery life, but one thought might be to drastically reduce the amount of time between EWS syncs from the current minimum of 5 minutes down to, say, every 30 seconds or even every 1 second. While it wouldn't be push, it would be close enough to real-time to mimic push.
Title: Re: Let's discuss: push mail for Exchange
Post by: Kostya Vasilyev on May 13, 2015, 10:23:11 pm
30 seconds or 1 second would be keeping the device awake *all the time*

The reason I considered a cloud based component is that EWS push (unlike ActiveSync push) sends a dummy "keep alive" data packet every 45 seconds. Even that is too much for a mobile device wrt. battery life.
Title: Re: Let's discuss: push mail for Exchange
Post by: mobamoba on May 14, 2015, 12:09:59 am
Ah - got it. And I freely admit this question may be dumb  :), but is there no way to make use of the existing Exchange apk that's built into every version of Android and pull that account into Aquamail? I think that's what the most recent version of Gmail did (though perhaps Google made some licensing arrangement with Microsoft to allow that - I don't know).
Title: Re: Let's discuss: push mail for Exchange
Post by: Kostya Vasilyev on May 14, 2015, 12:14:11 am
As far as licensing goes -- Google made the hardware vendors pay for licenses.

There is a list of licensees somewhere on MS's web site -- Sony, Samsung, LG, HTC, etc.

And no, I don't see a way to use the built-in Exchange services.

Gmail is in a privileged position, since both the Gmail app and the system level Exchange service -- are from same company :)
Title: Re: Let's discuss: push mail for Exchange
Post by: Finferlo on September 08, 2015, 02:39:39 pm
I apologize, I wish to highlight MAILWISE, it does not use a cloud has a good push email for exchange
Title: Re: Let's discuss: push mail for Exchange
Post by: mikeone on September 08, 2015, 09:55:01 pm
I apologize, I wish to highlight MAILWISE, it does not use a cloud has a good push email for exchange
Yes, push for exchange (using ActiveSync, 
But obviously no push for IMAP (IDLE)...  uuups  8)
(....and they do not support POP3)
Title: Re: Let's discuss: push mail for Exchange
Post by: mikeone on September 08, 2015, 10:08:30 pm
I apologize, I wish to highlight MAILWISE, it does not use a cloud has a good push email for exchange

AquaMail does not support ActiveSync - however EWS (Exchange Mail Services) is supported right now.

Please have a look into these threads for some background information:
http://www.aqua-mail.com/forum/index.php?topic=2746.msg12162#msg12162

http://www.aqua-mail.com/forum/index.php?topic=3195.msg15438#msg15438

Use forum search with keywords "ActiveSync EWS " to find more...
Title: Re: Let's discuss: push mail for Exchange
Post by: Kostya Vasilyev on September 08, 2015, 10:42:50 pm
What?

MailWise does not have push mail for *the majority of mail providers*?

And no push for Yahoo, I suppose (who decided to be "special" and have their own, undocumented, push standard)?
Title: Re: Let's discuss: push mail for Exchange
Post by: mikeone on September 08, 2015, 10:46:52 pm
Unbelievable,...

Quote

IMAP Push Deficiencies

IMAP push isn’t beneficial for neither battery use or data consumption.

IMAP push, or IMAP IDLE, still requires a permanent state of TCP connection to your email provider.
In order to keep that connection from failing, the e-mail client, MailWise, needs to send periodical keep-alive packets. Otherwise your carrier or Internet router will drop the connection.

That said, there is no way of telling in general whether pull or push is more efficient. It depends on a number of variables:

- Stability of your Internet connection (the less stable it is - the more keep-alive packets are needed)
- Number of monitored folders are you monitoring (IMAP IDLE can only monitor a single folder per connection)
- Frequency of incoming Mail. For instance, if you get a lot of mail (let's say one eMail every few minutes) - IMAP IDLE (push) will always be expensive.
Title: Re: Let's discuss: push mail for Exchange
Post by: Kostya Vasilyev on September 08, 2015, 10:52:32 pm
So many words :)

They're right about battery use, but... users want it.

My guess -- they used some code from stock Android Email for ActiveSync, but Android Email (or Gmail) don't support IMAP IDLE.

Compare to Boxer: they purchased Enhanced Email and got IMAP IDLE (I think EE had it).

( not that it's rocket science or anything, even though it's a good deal of work... maybe comparable in size to calendar sync... )
Title: Re: Let's discuss: push mail for Exchange
Post by: Kostya Vasilyev on September 08, 2015, 10:57:42 pm
Yes, there are many great, excellent, fantastic mail apps.

In no particular order:

Boxer, Cloud Magic, Mail Wise, K9 Mail, TypeMail, Outlook, Gmail...

And I'm sure I'm missing another dozen or two.
Title: Re: Let's discuss: push mail for Exchange
Post by: mikeone on September 08, 2015, 11:01:28 pm
Yes, there are many great, excellent, fantastic mail apps.

In no particular order:

Boxer, Cloud Magic, Mail Wise, K9 Mail, TypeMail, Outlook, Gmail...

And I'm sure I'm missing another dozen or two.
... but none of them is sooo lovely like AquaMail
Title: Re: Let's discuss: push mail for Exchange
Post by: crashdamage on September 09, 2015, 02:11:46 am
Yes, there are many great, excellent, fantastic mail apps.

In no particular order:

Boxer, Cloud Magic, Mail Wise, K9 Mail, TypeMail, Outlook, Gmail...

And I'm sure I'm missing another dozen or two.
You're giving the competition toooo much credit.  Several of those mentioned have security concerns, missing features, etc. And yes, those listed and others not mentioned may have some particular features AquaMail does not.

But IMHO AquaMail has unique features too, like the Smart Folder, the most customization options, and the most useful options, and the cleanest, most intuitive UI (well, maybe with the exception of finding some submenus).  It's fast, stable and reliable.  All that in a surprisingly small file package.

Of course I'm not saying anything everyone here doesn't know.  I'm just repeating it here as a reminder to Mr. Vasilyev not to lose sight of what has already been accomplished with AquaMail.  Or lose sight of what can still be done.

I'm no developer.  I can't code worth squat.  But I've used Linux for nearly 15 years and Android since v1.0, when I got one of the very first G1 units.  I've tried a lot of software.  A lot of email clients - Gmail, MyMail, K-9, Maildroid, Enhanced Email, BlueMail etc, etc.  Probably 15 or so by now.  AquaMail wins, the best general-purpose client yet. 

And when I recommend AquaMail, which is often, I like to add that not only is it an excellent email client, it's one of the best apps of any kind for Android.

So keep up the good work!  It is appreciated!

Android since v1.0.  Linux user since 2001.
Title: Re: Let's discuss: push mail for Exchange
Post by: Kostya Vasilyev on September 09, 2015, 02:20:07 am
Thank you @crashdamage.

BTW, I've seen your post about EmailPrivacyTester.com (and fixed the typos!!)

AquaMail has missing features too, and anyway, my point wasn't to badmouth other apps, or to "go begging for praise" (so to speak).

Just some facts, ironic, really...

This topic is about push for Exchange, so here is an app that has push for Exchange, great! But then oops, no push for IMAP as it turns out, which AquaMail does have. And some people need that (IMAP push) more than Exchange push... and vice versa too.

So the "feature matrix" of an email app is huge, some have this and some have that, ....

Maybe I need to go get some sleep, this post of mine is bordering on incoherent :)
Title: Re: Let's discuss: push mail for Exchange
Post by: crashdamage on September 09, 2015, 02:36:43 am
I didn't say anything you haven't earned through hard work.  Credit given where credit is due.  Just trying to keep you inspired to make your creation even better.

As for push, ActiveSync, etc....I doubt you or anyone else will ever be able to cover all the possibilities.  IOW ya can't please all the people all the time.  Meh.

BTW, you might want to re-read my last post.  I did a bunch of edits and additions while you were writing a reply.

EDIT: If you saw where I mentioned the website typo, then you must have read some of my other rants.  I've been posting a lot about security, crapware, etc lately.  You must think I'm nuts.  Maybe...That stuff has been on my mind a lot. 

And now I'll let this thread get back on-topic...

Android since v1.0.  Linux user since 2001.
Title: Re: Let's discuss: push mail for Exchange
Post by: Finferlo on September 10, 2015, 10:12:07 pm

I mentioned Mailwise just to say that it has two peculiarities worthy of attention.
Aquamail is certainly the best. However just remember 5 years ago Nokia was the best phone brand, today no one appreciates as then, everything changes quickly. So we must see what others do better to become the best of them. Thanks Kostya Vasilyev, for your excellent software, allow me to insist: no push to exchange your software will lose positions in the ranking of the best apps.
Title: Re: Let's discuss: push mail for Exchange
Post by: mikeone on September 16, 2015, 08:31:41 am

I mentioned Mailwise just to say that it has two peculiarities worthy of attention.
Aquamail is certainly the best. However just remember 5 years ago Nokia was the best phone brand, today no one appreciates as then, everything changes quickly. So we must see what others do better to become the best of them. Thanks Kostya Vasilyev, for your excellent software, allow me to insist: no push to exchange your software will lose positions in the ranking of the best apps.
You can trust that Kostya is aware of this need (to get 'push mail for Exchange") ... and he is already dealing to get a smart solution which will make the users satisfied.
As far as I know Kostya is hard working to implement this feature - without using ActiveSync - perhaps in the coming major release (v 1.6).

Please see the discussion on Google+ and be patient - please - :

https://plus.google.com/111661559774274998746/posts/H729tvNuC14
Title: Re: Let's discuss: push mail for Exchange
Post by: Nathan W. on October 06, 2015, 03:13:08 pm
Good morning from Arizona-U.S. 
First - I want to state that the Android email app I have defaulted to since discovering it is AquaMail.  By far the only Android app I prefer to use for my email.

Second - For the past 1 year I have been using the Windows Phone 8.0/8.1 platform, and have been using it specifically for the reasons for this posted topic that I am replying to. I was an avid user of Android from 2010-2014 in which I was forced to switch due to my companies corporate policies and lack of support for Android/activesync devices. Currently supported at my workplace only are iOS and Windows Phone devices. However, recently I began researching more within the use of AquaMail and being able to sync my corporate mail using EWS. I had not attempted to do this before because Android was not a supported platform, and so assumed not to try it anymore.  Normally using all other Andorid mail apps with acivesync would fail, along with quarantining my phone on my mail account.  Long story short--I began attempting to use AquaMail EWS feature to access my corporate email last week since switching to a Windows Phone.  To my surprise (for lack of a better word) it worked (well...for a short while).  After I had jumped to using a Windows Phone (activesync), I had tossed all my Android devices so was only able to use the older version of AM on an older Moto Droid X2 device.  I am going to have to post more in another separate thread about my issues staying connected to my corporate email using EWS.  In any case the AquaMail app is THE ONLY Android Platform app I have ever been able to use to connect to my corporate email account with.  I am sure there are other EWS email apps out there that might connect to my corporate email too, but honestly I will stay devoted to AM if I can get it to work with my corporate email.

Third - I agree with most posts in this forum and second the advancement of the AM app as it exists now. The activesync protocol though feature rich gives its creator/author more control, and in the end as we all know more change in their pockets. If there is a way to get what is needed out of what is already in place with some tweaks and fine tuning then that is the best option IMO--though never the easiest.  I am not a developer, but write and modify UNIX/Linux scripts weekly for myself to better do my job, so my hat's off to you Kostya.  To lay the foundation of this app down so that it can be as solid as it is, allowing it to be updated/supported as you most definitely have, and to even expand on it to make it better with the demands and needs going into the future is very rare coming from a standalone Android developer.  I see so many apps out there orphaned nowadays.  Thank you.
Title: Re: Let's discuss: push mail for Exchange
Post by: tmoody on October 16, 2015, 01:16:40 am
I've used most of the mentioned email apps at one time or another, but keep coming back to Aqua. Push for my live/hotmail account would be nice, but at the end of the day I have to ask myself how crucial it really is. If I were a courtroom attorney, needing last-minute updates, or something similar, that would be one thing. But in my world, I can't really count it as much of a hardship to have to wait 15 minutes for email--especially with so many other instant message options available.

The threaded/conversation view is another thing entirely. It's a feature that I once didn't care for, and tended to turn off, but over time I've gotten used to it and hope it's not too far off for Aqua. So in terms of priorities, I'd place it ahead of push mail for Exchange.
Title: Re: Let's discuss: push mail for Exchange
Post by: Nova on October 23, 2015, 04:31:03 pm
Hello, I'm new to AquaMail, but I love the simple and nice interface.
I'd also like to have push notifications for Exchange, but for the time being I "solved" it using an IMAP account (for the eMails), and another Exchange account (for the calendar).
This (seems) to work fine, for the time being.

Message threading / conversation is certainly higher priority to me, but if there is enough interest by the time I finish that...
Please don't implement threading / conversation, or at least set this to optional (configurable).  :D
I find this confusing, and much more confusing when I try to:
* set an email as unread: I get the whole thread as unread, so on the PC I find a lot of mails unread (not just the last one!)
* delete an email in the middle of a thread, without (accidentally) deleting the whole thread.

Title: Re: Let's discuss: push mail for Exchange
Post by: StR on October 23, 2015, 07:22:43 pm
Message threading / conversation is certainly higher priority to me, but if there is enough interest by the time I finish that...
Please don't implement threading / conversation, or at least set this to optional (configurable).  :D
Seeing how configurable Aquamail is, I have no doubts, that will be a configurable option.
Title: Re: Let's discuss: push mail for Exchange
Post by: Nathan W. on October 23, 2015, 07:51:09 pm
On all email apps I use that are capable I've turned off conversation view.  Personally prefer that.  Not all mobile email apps use or display conversation view the same way.  Are threaded views the same as conversation view?  Like that found in OWA 2010 and higher.  So for me having threaded/conversation view as optional is ideal.  However I doubt based on the way AquaMail is built and as configurable as it already is that an update would be released where conversation view is missing an on off option.
Title: Re: Let's discuss: push mail for Exchange
Post by: BPretzel on November 15, 2015, 08:30:26 pm
I may have posted this in another thread.
My need for Exchange Push in AM went from "required" to "nice to have" and now "I don't care"

I have an elegant but simple solution and it's been working flawlessly;
 - Set AM to sync with Exchange only once a day
 - Install some other email that supports ActiveSync, just for notifcations (most are garbage compared to AM)
 - Use Tasker with some plugins to check notifiations and trigger AM to sync my Exchange account

Done!

I added some Tasker code to turn off the redundant nofitications but it's still pretty basic and just works. I'm getting dozens of Exchange emails daily, I get them within seconds and my AM battery drain is hardly measurable.

Did any more details of this workaround ever get submitted? What email notifier (for initiating an AM sync on EWS) and what code (to remove redundant notifications etc)? This seems to be quite an elegant approach and certainly better than my use of two accounts for the same e-mail...
Title: Re: Let's discuss: push mail for Exchange
Post by: stevealb on November 16, 2015, 01:17:25 pm
I use Tasker for this as well, since I must have push on my exchange account and I think AM is the best email client. I use Autonotification Intercept Event to capture the Push notification from the stock email client in Android which is set for my exchange account. That notification triggers AM to pull email from the same account, and voila, AM now has Push. While not as elegant as having built in Push, it does allow me to use AM for my exchange account.
Title: Re: Let's discuss: push mail for Exchange
Post by: Finferlo on November 22, 2015, 09:02:28 pm
There is nothing that pisses off more our Kostya: mention push in exchange
but this remains the Achilles heel of this software.
Title: Re: Let's discuss: push mail for Exchange
Post by: nadir husain on January 25, 2016, 09:24:16 am
 @kostya can an office 365 be auto forwarded into a personal account lets say @gmail.com ? if yes then this can be a workaround for a lot of your users who want push for office 365
Title: Re: Let's discuss: push mail for Exchange
Post by: StR on January 25, 2016, 09:54:31 am
@kostya can an office 365 be auto forwarded into a personal account lets say @gmail.com ? if yes then this can be a workaround for a lot of your users who want push for office 365
I would consider privacy implications related to using Gmail (especially a free account) for business e-mail.
Even when using Gmail with paid business accounts, some entities negotiate special contracts with Gmail about storage, privacy, access and retention of the information contained in the e-mails.
Title: Re: Let's discuss: push mail for Exchange
Post by: nadir husain on January 25, 2016, 11:18:13 am
Agreed . But would that not be better than using a cloud based third party app to get exchange. in other words would you not trust google servers over a third party app server ? maybe i am missing something here.
[/quote]
I would consider privacy implications related to using Gmail (especially a free account) for business e-mail.
Even when using Gmail with paid business accounts, some entities negotiate special contracts with Gmail about storage, privacy, access and retention of the information contained in the e-mails.
[/quote]
Title: Re: Let's discuss: push mail for Exchange
Post by: StR on January 25, 2016, 10:38:20 pm
In some (many?) cases would be a policy violation. So, the answer is:  neither.

And yes, I trust Google: it does read your emails, in accordance to its TOS.

(If you are in the US, you can ask the Senate if they would entrust Clinton's emails to a Gmail server. 8) )