AquaMail Forum

English => General Discussion => Topic started by: hunterofknowledge on January 06, 2015, 10:31:48 pm

Title: PGP encryption should be moved to the top of the feature list
Post by: hunterofknowledge on January 06, 2015, 10:31:48 pm
Like many of your customers, I purchased Aqua-Mail Pro and am now in dire need of an update that includes PGP functionality.  I appreciate that you may be a small team (1 I think) but in this day and age encryption is a requirement especially given that my company has mandated it for all internal communication going forward.

Can I suggest that you stop focussing on beautifying an already great product and redirect efforts to increasing functionality of the app?  Along that line, when do you expect to implement PGP encryption?

Until PGP functionality is possible with Aqua-Mail I am forced to install K9 and require all of my team to do the same.  Please help!

Thanks,

Paul
Title: Re: PGP encryption should be moved to the top of the feature list
Post by: pyler on January 06, 2015, 11:00:04 pm
There should be poll and users would say what they really want. The most voted = the highest priority?
Title: Re: PGP encryption should be moved to the top of the feature list
Post by: hunterofknowledge on January 06, 2015, 11:33:26 pm
Sure.  If the developer is constrained by limited resources then features should be added based on need / demand.  Presumably, inclusion of the most wanted features will result in greatest uptake of AquaMail.

That said, until PGP (or some other widely recognized encryption protocol) becomes a standard feature of AquaMail our company is forced to use alternatives and I suspect we are not the only ones facing this dilemma.  We can forgo swipe, swipe, swipe but we can't allow our internal email communications to float around in the open.

FYI - there is at least one reason why K9 has seen an up tick in downloads despite a lesser quality product.  Part of the user base is drawn to the price (free) but I suspect they have a large pool of users based on increased security.
Title: Re: PGP encryption should be moved to the top of the feature list
Post by: Fcasoli on January 06, 2015, 11:35:55 pm
I'm sure, over all user requests, Kostya can evaluate the features priorities, market prospective.
I have not encryption needs but I understand totally what it means for a user.
Aquamail is beautiful and ergonomic to use, but the most target is to be a complete email client, as Kostya frequently summarized...


Galaxy Note 4 + Gear 2

Title: Re: PGP encryption should be moved to the top of the feature list
Post by: mikeone on January 07, 2015, 12:54:00 am
While googling "using pgp", I found this, entitled "15 reasons not to start using PGP"

http://secushare.org/PGP


Paris Geek:

Thank you for sharing this link.  Very interesting compilation.

Mikeone
Title: Re: PGP encryption should be moved to the top of the feature list
Post by: Kostya Vasilyev on January 07, 2015, 01:33:37 am
Yes, I am a "team" of one -- meaning I do development, design, answer user emails and respond on the forum. That's already a lot for any one person to handle.

As far as your remark about "stop focussing on beautifying" goes -- that's just one perspective.

Another, equally valid, was "your app looks Windows 95, meaning it looks like shit" (thankfully no more).

And then Material Design came along and it was "when are you going to update the app, look, this Calculator app has it already".

A lot of users need more Exchange specific stuff -- and that's not any less valid than PGP.

And then we have "all other apps have conversation view, and yours doesn't, are you an idiot or something"?

So bottom line, the sum of all requests is: "everything, yesterday". Getting back to there being only one of me, some things will not be worked on, it's just inevitable.

( I, for one, can't understand why K9 is limited to the obsolete OWA for Exchange connectivity -- according to their Github page, they have 100+ contributors )
Title: Re: PGP encryption should be moved to the top of the feature list
Post by: hunterofknowledge on January 26, 2015, 08:57:09 am
Dropped Aqua Mail tonight in favour of K9 due to the lack of encryption and I have also had to ask the team to do the same.  If you decide to tackle security by implementing PGP (AGP / Gnu Privacy Guard) we will be back but until then we cannot have our email running through servers without encryption.

Aqua Mail Pro is a great product so hopefully this is looked at soon.

Paul
Title: Re: PGP encryption should be moved to the top of the feature list
Post by: logicprobe on April 29, 2015, 07:02:17 am
So bottom line, the sum of all requests is: "everything, yesterday". Getting back to there being only one of me, some things will not be worked on, it's just inevitable.

Have you considered expanding the development team?
Title: Re: PGP encryption should be moved to the top of the feature list
Post by: Kostya Vasilyev on April 30, 2015, 01:28:37 am
I would if I were in BlueMail's or Boxer's or Accompli's shoes.

US based, funded, knowing the right people, a "dynamic competitive personality", and all that.

But I'm just a guy with too much computer equipment in his bedroom.
Title: Re: PGP encryption should be moved to the top of the feature list
Post by: CatWool on June 17, 2015, 06:02:41 pm
Since some days Facebook officially supports PGP encryption and I would like to use it. I hope this bumps the whole PGP thing.

I can't post external links here. So you have to search for "Securing Email Communications from Facebook" in the search engine of your choice.

Another try:
facebook.com/notes/protecting-the-graph/securing-email-communications-from-facebook/1611941762379302
Title: Re: PGP encryption should be moved to the top of the feature list
Post by: Kostya Vasilyev on June 17, 2015, 10:04:52 pm
How nice of Facebook :)
Title: Re: PGP encryption should be moved to the top of the feature list
Post by: Idealist on August 23, 2015, 11:55:58 pm
Since now GMX and Web.de also support PGP. Because of this it would be fine for me, too, to have this feature in Aquamail.

Gesendet von meinem GT-I9295 mit Tapatalk

Title: Re: PGP encryption should be moved to the top of the feature list
Post by: StR on August 24, 2015, 10:46:32 pm
While googling "using pgp", I found this, entitled "15 reasons not to start using PGP"

http://secushare.org/PGP

Apart k9,  few email apps have implemented PGP. There's certainly a reason behind that.
<...>


In my understanding (and I am not an expert in PGP per se), at least one of the reasons why not that many apps implement PGP is the complexity (including the multitude of potential pitfalls). Yet another one is a fairly small portion of the users who use it. (I am not discussing how many people should use it.)
Personally, I consider e-mail as an insecure communication channel with all consequences. None of my correspondents (business or personal), and even those who deal with the private information and try to request such to be sent via e-mail, are set to be able to receive PGP-encrypted e-mails.


Thank you, that webpage has an interesting collection of thoughts and arguments.

However, I would like to warn about it. Not all statements there are correct.
E.g. "10. Workflow: Group messaging with PGP is impractical."
Quote
Have you tried making a mailing list with people sharing private messages? It's a cumbersome configuration procedure and inefficient since each copy is re-encrypted.

(underlining is mine)

This is incorrect. At least the modern implementations do not send separate copies, but rather encrypt the message symmetrically, and then encrypt the key for that encryption with individual keys of all the recipients, attaching the resulting small pieces of data to the message.
(See e.g. here: http://security.stackexchange.com/questions/8245/gpg-file-size-with-multiple-recipients )
Since one of the statements is incorrect, I am not sure how much is correct in the rest of the statements. Besides, this text is posted on the website of the project that is essentially competing. While the criticism is useful, but one has to recognize the incentives of the authors.
Caveat Emptor!


Title: Re: PGP encryption should be moved to the top of the feature list
Post by: rob on December 17, 2015, 02:40:16 pm
Upfront: I am using AquaMail now for more than a year, since from all I tried before, I thought it was the best app for me.
I would love to continue with it and stay with my favourite mail app.

Now I come up with a huge BUT!!!

(BUT) now I strongly need PGP support, even on my mobile. As I am now traveling a lot, I am often blocked out from my
(important) mail when it's crypted.

I tried K-9 for this purpose as Aqua doesn't support it. I just want to stay away from it. ARGGGH.
Once you got used to Aqua, you just don't want to deal an mess around with others again.

But what to do?

Dear Kostya, from all you ever replied to this topic, I understand it's not easy to implement.
But what the hack: What's easy nowadays???

What I also do understand from what you have replied so far: you don't seem to take this matter serious enough.

Aqua-Mail has IMO reached a stage, where you need to decide whether it's slowly downgrading back to a basic communication "toy",
overrun by today's needs, or stay a well respected state-of-the-art professional communicator, meeting nowadays needs.
I would prefer the latter.

You have a loyal community, perspectively growing, but you seem not to recognize when it's getting in shake.

We live in the post-Snowden era now and - unfortunately - we have to meet the challenges to decrease
the violation of our privacy.

##It is not an option - it's mandatory!###


I really don't want to get offensive here, not at all, just want to make sure you are not missing the message.

If you don't get it done on your own - get help out there, go and ASK FOR HELP but GET IT DONE. Don't miss it!!
But don't continue telling us why you can't do it....

Apart from this, I am convinced from your work on Aqua-Mail, and I'd love to stay a loyal user.

Please show proof that you deserve users considering themselves as loyal and don't let them go.

Yours,
Rob
Title: Re: PGP encryption should be moved to the top of the feature list
Post by: crashdamage on December 19, 2015, 02:49:28 am
I've used AquaMail for quite a while now and seen it grow into the best email client there is.  I can't overstate how impressed i am  with it.  Very user friendly UI and options out the wazoo.  I often say it's not only the best mail client, it's one of the best apps of any kind for Android. I've installed it on friends and family's phones.  I recommend AquaMail every chance I get including many, many posts in Android Forums and Android Central.  I've become not only a user of AquaMail but an AquaMail advocate.  I do it because it's that good and because I believe in the philosophy of keeping it non-cloud based and secure.

BUT...I get asked the same 2 questions over and over, and of course you know what I'm gonna say, in order of importance: 

1. Does it support Exchange ActiveSync?
2. Does it have PGP encrypton?

When I answer...

1. No, but it does support IMAP and EWS.
2. No, but it has secure SSL and passes EmailPrivacyTest.com 100%.

...then most times the reply is something like: "Dang, that's too bad.  I like AquaMail a lot, but I have to have (#1, #2 or both).  It's a dealbreaker for me." I respectfully suggest that you could significantly grow your userbase, maybe even pick up some multiple installation business accounts if you added those 2 features.  You could sell them as extra-cost add-on plugins to cover the cost.  A lot of users would go for that. 

AquaMail is already terrific.  The UI is beautiful and efficient to use and it's plenty configurable.  Rob has it right in the post above.  Put aside any planned improvements in those areas, it's already good enough you can let it ride for a while.  Concentrate ALL your development efforts towards implementing ActiveSync and encryption.  Hire some help if necessary, whatever it takes to get it done.  That's clearly, IMHO the way forward for AquaMail from here. 

AquaMail, like it or not, and I can understand you may not, is not just a little project by a computer geek with lotsa computer equipment in his bedroom.  I don't know, maybe it's become larger and more important both to you and your customers than you ever thought or dreamed it would.  Maybe you were hoping for more, I don't know.  But I don't think integrating ActiveSync and encryption should seen as an option but as a necessity.  Not as a problem but as an opportunity for growth.  You should jump on this opportunity while you can.

Sorry, not trying to tell you how to run your business...though I guess I kinda am. I just want to see AquaMail continue to improve for us users and for you to make a good living - or more - for your work.
Title: Re: PGP encryption should be moved to the top of the feature list
Post by: nadir husain on December 19, 2015, 10:23:12 am
agree absolutely ,  completely and totally with crashdamage.  as one who has used/played with/tested every email app on android with over a million downloads  and a recent migrant to aquamail i can safely say this is one mother of an app.  " you can check out but you can never leave".  both pgp and activesync are necessities in todays business environment  even though,  admittedly,  there are arguments against  the implementation  or usefullness of both.  these two additions will make this app "complete"  in todays technology world,  more complete than any email app on any platform.  users would be happy to pay for both as plugins -  i say plugins since everyone might not want the paid facility to be mandatory.  but please kostya do think seriously about incorporation of activesync and pgp.
Title: Re: PGP encryption should be moved to the top of the feature list
Post by: mikeone on December 19, 2015, 08:08:51 pm
Kostya,

I also agree with the statements above from crashdamage and nadir husain and all the other users who are greedy for ActiveSync and Encryption.

Most of them are using AquaMail for their private mail accounts and they appreciate this really great app.
Now these users are on a "point of no return" as aptly described by Nadir and they want to use your powerful app with all these beloved features and customizations also for their business accounts.

Now, after finishing that marvelous implemented "Conversation view" is a very good time / opportunity for thinking about the future for the ongoing development of AquaMail.

How about a "fork" for business use, a separate app named e.g. "AquaMail Business" which could contain all these "I need it for business" features like ActiveSync, Encryption, Full Calendar- and To-do- sync / integration,... (whatever upcoming needs business user will have in the future)?

The advantage would be to get a separate business model for commercial use, e.g. a monthly or yearly payment plan (like other apps for professional use)

Nevertheless, private users are still be able to take advantage of the pro features by a one-time fee - just not with the specific extensions of business requirements like ActiveSync, Encryption and others...



Title: Re: PGP encryption should be moved to the top of the feature list
Post by: Catscratch on December 19, 2015, 09:39:16 pm
Oh he could also switch to an aquamail version with in-app payment. Then all users can choose the features they want. And you could get paid for every new feature to be implemented.
Title: Re: PGP encryption should be moved to the top of the feature list
Post by: crashdamage on December 19, 2015, 10:22:02 pm
Kostya,

I also agree with the statements above from crashdamage and nadir husain and all the other users who are greedy for ActiveSync and Encryption.

Most of them are using AquaMail for their private mail accounts and they appreciate this really great app.
Now these users are on a "point of no return" as aptly described by Nadir and they want to use your powerful app with all these beloved features and customizations also for their business accounts.

Now, after finishing that marvelous implemented "Conversation view" is a very good time / opportunity for thinking about the future for the ongoing development of AquaMail.

How about a "fork" for business use, a separate app named e.g. "AquaMail Business" which could contain all these "I need it for business" features like ActiveSync, Encryption, Full Calendar- and To-do- sync / integration,... (whatever upcoming needs business user will have in the future)?

The advantage would be to get a separate business model for commercial use, e.g. a monthly or yearly payment plan (like other apps for professional use)

Nevertheless, private users are still be able to take advantage of the pro features by a one-time fee - just not with the specific extensions of business requirements like ActiveSync, Encryption and others...

Yes, I love the idea: $10 per year for Aquamail Business. But is it really a good business model? Will there be enough paying customers to sustain the expenses?
Any idea how to figure that out other than actually trying it?  If you tried to do some market research by an email to current users you:

a. Might tick some off with the 'Spam'.
b. Would get inaccurate results because current users don't need the features.
c. Might not get enough responses to mean anything.

I think ya probably just gotta grit your teeth and go for it.

Android since v1.0. Linux since 2001

P.S.  it will be very interesting to hear what the Boss has to say about this conversation.
Title: Re: PGP encryption should be moved to the top of the feature list
Post by: crashdamage on December 22, 2015, 08:40:53 am
Apparently the Boss has no comment at all.   You certainly don't owe anyone any explanation.   And I realize you already stated your position - basically, hey I 'm just one guy.

But, Kostya, I respectfully submit that it would be, uh...let's say, polite and thoughtful to let users know your opinion of the points that have been made in the last few posts of this thread.

Whatever...many thanks for me great app.

Android since v1.0. Linux since 2001
Title: Re: PGP encryption should be moved to the top of the feature list
Post by: nadir husain on December 22, 2015, 08:58:42 am
The "Boss" is probably brooding/thinking/mulling over the possibilities . Hey maybe he will spring a surprise and one day in the not too distant future he might say"hey you... all of you.... here take this " and bingo we have encryption and then there will be a moment of silence and then another round of "what do you ...um... what do you think of this " and we have activesync ..... dream on nadir  ;)
Title: Re: PGP encryption should be moved to the top of the feature list
Post by: mikeone on December 22, 2015, 09:49:02 am
The "Boss" is probably brooding/thinking/mulling over the possibilities . Hey maybe he will spring a surprise and one day in the not too distant future he might say"hey you... all of you.... here take this " and bingo we have encryption and then there will be a moment of silence and then another round of "what do you ...um... what do you think of this " and we have activesync ..... dream on nadir  ;)
:) Yeah, it's December, Christmas time, come and make my dreams come true...
Title: Re: PGP encryption should be moved to the top of the feature list
Post by: someone on December 22, 2015, 12:41:46 pm
The "Boss" is probably brooding/thinking/mulling over the possibilities . Hey maybe he will spring a surprise and one day in the not too distant future he might say"hey you... all of you.... here take this " and bingo we have encryption and then there will be a moment of silence and then another round of "what do you ...um... what do you think of this " and we have activesync ..... dream on nadir  ;)

Encryption is a niche feature -

Let's focus on mass market requests: UNDO functions, snoozing messages, more customizable widgets, new skins, reorganize (very rich) settings, etc. And if there's more time : review the message/list display to get even more fluid navigation (get instant window opening for example even on slower devices).
+1
Especially undo, reorganize settings, and message filters.
Title: Re: PGP encryption should be moved to the top of the feature list
Post by: crashdamage on December 22, 2015, 12:56:00 pm
Encryption is kinda niche, true.  ActiveSync is needed by far more users.  But if you need them not having them is a deal-breaker.  If AquaMail is to be taken seriously as a fully capable enterprise-quality client those functions, especially ActiveSync, must be available.

Your list of UI tweaks, while thoughtful, is itself a list of niche improvements.  Combined they would attract a tiny fraction of the number of users that one thing, ActiveSync would.

Personally, I couldn't care less about PGP or ActiveSync.  I'll never use either one.  I'm just suggesting what IMHO is the only way AquaMail can successfully continue long-term.  Maybe grow signficantly and make Kostya a pile of money.

Android since v1.0. Linux since 2001

Title: Re: PGP encryption should be moved to the top of the feature list
Post by: crashdamage on December 22, 2015, 06:36:23 pm
For ActiveSync, there are aleady very good apps (costing more than AquaMail Pro).,
Sure, like Nine or Touchdown.  I'm just saying AquaMail should be a member of the club.
Quote
For what you call UI tweaks there are free apps (Type Mail is one of them).
I'm not sure what you mean.  But Type Mail is, like many clients these days, cloud-based and cannot be considered secure.  See this:

http://androidforums.com/index.php?posts/7051405

Quote
To Kostya to decide which way to take. IMHO, AquaMail should remain a universal app, having lots of settings, covering very large customer needs, especially UI tweaks.
I don't know him or anything about his situation.  I hope he goes in the best direction for his happiness.  I'm simply pointing out what AquaMail needs to stay relevant, grow the userbase and make money, which likey would contribute to his level of happines.

You're absolutely correct that AquaMail should be universal.  ActiveSync and maybe encryption just adds major components that greatly increases the universal appeal.  Nine, for example, is a fine ActiveSync client but has no IMAP or POP3 capability.  It's passed over by many people because of that.  Adding ActiveSync immediately makes AquaMail very appealing to those needing an all-in-one solution.

UI tweaks are nice but won't sell AquaMail like ActiveSync and encryption will.  Kostya can always get a back to working on those UI refinements later.

Android since v1.0. Linux since 2001
Title: Re: PGP encryption should be moved to the top of the feature list
Post by: rob on December 23, 2015, 11:41:21 am
Apparently the Boss has no comment at all.   You certainly don't owe anyone any explanation.   And I realize you already stated your position - basically, hey I 'm just one guy.

But, Kostya, I respectfully submit that it would be, uh...let's say, polite and thoughtful to let users know your opinion of the points that have been made in the last few posts of this thread.


Agree.

Since I "bumped-up" this thread on 17th Dec, Kostya replied in other threads, not here.

@Kostaya, are you tired in repeating your phrases of older threads? It looks like it.

Well, If you really have nothing to say we need to make up our own minds, what the
silence you are spreading is meant to be....

But, as "crasdamage" already mentioned:

It's about being polite and respectful to get involved
in communication, especially if it's not only in general, but specificially addressing you personally.

 
Title: Re: PGP encryption should be moved to the top of the feature list
Post by: crashdamage on December 23, 2015, 01:49:40 pm
As I said before I've recommended - promoted, advertised really, AquaMail many, many times and gotten many people to try it..  That in turn generates requests for help.  I don't mind at all but I have spent considerable time doing tech support.  Not here, in other forums.

Anyway, the point is not to pat myself on the back.  Thing is, I get asked a lot if AquaMail will ever get encryption or, especially, ActiveSync,  I have to tell them I don't know but that I'm not aware of any plans.  That turns off a lot of people even if they don't need it now. They don't want to get invested in AquaMail if they may have to go to something else later.  They're looking for an all-in-one solution.

I wish I could give a more definitive answer.

Nine users are in a similar situation, waiting to see if it will ever get IMAP and POP3 support.

Android since v1.0.  Linux user since 2001.
Title: Re: PGP encryption should be moved to the top of the feature list
Post by: mikeone on December 23, 2015, 01:50:59 pm
Apparently the Boss has no comment at all.   You certainly don't owe anyone any explanation.   And I realize you already stated your position - basically, hey I 'm just one guy.

But, Kostya, I respectfully submit that it would be, uh...let's say, polite and thoughtful to let users know your opinion of the points that have been made in the last few posts of this thread.


Agree.

Since I "bumped-up" this thread on 17th Dec, Kostya replied in other threads, not here.

@Kostaya, are you tired in repeating your phrases of older threads? It looks like it.

Well, If you really have nothing to say we need to make up our own minds, what the
silence you are spreading is meant to be....

But, as "crasdamage" already mentioned:

It's about being polite and respectful to get involved
in communication, especially if it's not only in general, but specificially addressing you personally.
I do not agree.

@chrashdamage, @rob:
Please look into this thread and you will get requested polite and respectful answer(s) from Kostya.

http://www.aqua-mail.com/forum/index.php?topic=2623.msg11172#msg11172
Title: Re: PGP encryption should be moved to the top of the feature list
Post by: crashdamage on December 23, 2015, 01:55:04 pm
Thanks mikeone!

Hmmm...in a nutshell, he says his plate is pretty full (I expect it always will be) and not now regarding encryption.  Doesn't really address ActiveSync.  But the thread is kinda old and I an't help wondering what his current thoughts are.

Android since v1.0.  Linux user since 2001.
Title: Re: PGP encryption should be moved to the top of the feature list
Post by: mikeone on December 23, 2015, 03:01:46 pm
Yes, the thread mentioned in my previous post is concerning the headline of this thread "PGP encryption should be moved..."
 8)

... a "recent" statement from Kostya you will find right here in this thread:

07. January 2015
http://www.aqua-mail.com/forum/index.php?topic=3183.msg15342#msg15342
Title: Re: PGP encryption should be moved to the top of the feature list
Post by: mikeone on December 23, 2015, 03:51:14 pm
@rob
I know that you are new member here in the forum and therefore you can't be aware of the responsiveness from Kostya. And that Kostya really takes care for the users issues, needs and suggestions. However, as part of its modest possibilities as a sole developer.

And I guess you are fully right with your assumption "... maybe Kostya is getting tired in repeating his phrases of older threads? It looks like it."

I would fully understand Kostya to get tired of replying to the same recurrent requirements again and again...

@chrashdamage
I have gathered some interesting statements from Kostya concerning "not to support ActiveSync, but EWS" which I've found through the search function here in the forum:

26. November 2012
http://www.aqua-mail.com/forum/index.php?topic=37.msg129#msg129
Quote
Yes it would be, and yes, it's not simple.

Using ActiveSync requires a license, and EWS is less appealing to most users who want Exchange.

I'm about to contact MS about a license after the current version goes out (1.1.0.5), if they say "no", it'll have to be EWS.


7. June 2013
http://www.aqua-mail.com/forum/index.php?topic=1289.msg3738#msg3738
Quote
Hello all,

It may seem that I've stopped developing the app and do not care about improving it further.

Not quite true.

For the last few months, I've had to deal with serious health issues.

It seems the worst is over now, and even though I'm not fully recovered yet, I'm starting to be able to work again.

My plans are:

- Native support for .ics calendar invites, being able to accept / decline right from Aqua Mail, and to send them (I hope this second part works out).

- Support for those horrible winmail.dat "attachments" that Outlook likes to send instead of nice standard Internet MIME messages.

- Built-in contact picker, which will include recent emails from actual messages, and not just what's in the device's Contacts... A better way to select groups, too.

--- this will be released to Play ---

- Better support for Exchange, using EWS (Exchange Web Services). There will not be support for ActiveSync.

--- release ---

Other "must have / nice to have" things, timing not cetain:

- Rich message formatting for new messages

- Threaded / conversation view

- The incredibly fashionable "swipe" actions here and there.

Smaller things will be added and fixed along the way, as usual.


10. September 2013
http://www.aqua-mail.com/forum/index.php?topic=1555.msg5061#msg5061
Quote

MS does not support IMAP for outlook.com accounts, even though they promised it over a year ago (hey, and I thought I was too slow).

http://www.aqua-mail.com/forum/index.php?topic=1273.msg4749#msg4749

Some mail apps (that have the necessary licenses from MS) can use ActiveSync with outlook.com, mine is not one of them.

I'll be adding support for MS's other, license-free mail protocol, EWS, and hope it works with outlook.com and office 365... But I haven't started on that yet, so it won't be ready for a while.


14. November 2013
http://www.aqua-mail.com/forum/index.php?topic=1773.msg6134#msg6134
Quote
ActiveSync - no, never, because of MS's complicated licensing requirements.

I chose EWS because it's license free and also much more commonly enabled than IMAP/SMTP (when those are off).

Sorry to hear EWS not enabled on your particular server.


14. March 2014
http://www.aqua-mail.com/forum/index.php?topic=2179.msg8132#msg8132
Quote
There is not, and will not be, support for ActiveSync because of its complicated licensing logistics.

Device manufacturers typically have the necessary licenses from MS (it's much easier for Samsung or Sony, compared to one guy in a suburb of Moscow).

I've chosen EWS, which is pretty much equivalent in terms of access to Exchange features.

Have not done push for Exchange yet, but do plan to do more work on it (including investigating push).

17. April 2014
http://www.aqua-mail.com/forum/index.php?topic=2291.msg8873#msg8873
Quote

I believe we were in touch today over mail, but I'm going to repost for others:

- ActiveSync requires licensing from MS; complying with its complicated logistics would just about kill me and my app. Other developers / companies may feel / do differently.

- It's easy to assume that an app developed for Microsoft (the Outlook.com app) does not need to have a license from Microsoft to use ActiveSync.

- I chose EWS over ActiveSync for access to corporate servers. The two protocols are (from my experience) are basically equivalent in terms of access to Exchange specific features.

- The IMAP server behind Hotmail / Outlook.com indeed does not support IMAP IDLE, the industry standard for push mail. It doesn't support even more basic IMAP extensions (e.g. UIDPLUS) that other IMAP services have. It's also fairly buggy. Looks like MS just doesn't take it seriously (could be intentional). Overall, it's been a disappointment.


19. May 2014
http://www.aqua-mail.com/forum/index.php?topic=2417.msg9549#msg9549
Quote

As I'd mentioned before, Aqua uses the EWS network protocol to connect to Exchange servers.

It does not support ActiveSync, the other Exchange network protocol, because of licensing complications.

Most corporate servers support both EWS and ActiveSync. Mail Droid (which is pretty popular) uses EWS.

However... Hotmail does not. It only supports ActiveSync.

"Standard" mail apps that come preinstalled, and some third party ones, are from companies that have ActiveSync licenses.

It's much easier when you're a company like Sony / Samsung / HTC / LG / ASUS than it is for me.


23. June 2014
http://www.aqua-mail.com/forum/index.php?topic=2499.msg10186#msg10186
Incidentally also quite interesting:
Quote
Well, the "403 forbidden" really speaks for itself -- this is the response from the server.

Aqua does not make up random URLs and server names because it wants to :) so it had to have been a server side change.

The standard URL for EWS is https://<server>/EWS/Exchange.asmx

This one doesn't even open in my desktop browser:

https://ipmm.next.co.uk/EWS/Exchange.asmx

In Chrome, I get a "This webpage is not available".

It's so nice for your IT guys to say they "don't support Android phones".


29. June 2014
http://www.aqua-mail.com/forum/index.php?topic=2179.msg10320#msg10320
Quote

There is not, and will not be, support for ActiveSync because of its complicated licensing logistics. Sorry (if I need to be).


17. August 2014
http://www.aqua-mail.com/forum/index.php?topic=2668.msg11630#msg11630
Quote

It's ActiveSync vs. Exchange Web Services (EWS) again.

ActiveSync comes with complicated licensing requirements (from Microsoft), so I chose to use EWS instead. Dealing with ActiveSync licensing is just too difficult for a guy in his bedroom.

Some companies and people who develop email apps have ActiveSync licenses (Samsung, HTC, Sony, LG... Enhanced Email, Moxier Mail, TouchDown)...

Some don't, and choose EWS instead (yours truly, MailDroid...)

Standards are great. Everyone should have his own.

14. November 2014
http://www.aqua-mail.com/forum/index.php?topic=45.msg13820#msg13820
Quote

It has nothing to do with ActiveSync vs. EWS.

It has everything to do with my not having implemented push for Exchange, back when I was adding Exchange support (about a year ago).

Something I'm going to look into, as well as two-way calendar sync, for version 1.6.


25. November 2014
http://www.aqua-mail.com/forum/index.php?topic=45.msg14154#msg14154
Quote

>> implementing ActiveSync wouldn't be that difficult to achieve

The issue, as I already explained numerous times, is having to get a license to use ActiveSync from MS:

1 - the complicated logistics
2 - costs

Look at Boxer. Got a great start, marketing, promotion, and now seems to be going nowhere. Lots of complaints in Google Play about its price -- and a then separate purchase to use Exchange.

They went with ActiveSync, and have to cover their licensing costs. But it does't do anything to change how users see it ("I have to pay *twice*?").

>> doesn't support Active Sync

ActiveSync is just a network protocol.

Can you explain why the network protocol is so important to you?

Maybe rather than a network protocol, you have specific Exchange oriented features in mind?


15. January 2015
http://www.aqua-mail.com/forum/index.php?topic=3213.msg15584#msg15584
Quote

There is not and will not be ActiveSync in AquaMail.

For Exchange, I chose EWS (Exchange Mail Services) instead.

Perfectly valid choice, also used by Mail Droid and EmClient (desktop) -- but your server settings may be different.

Please ask Zoho about EWS and what server name you should be using -- assuming it's supported.
**************
ZoHo use some voodoo black magic for their Active Sync connectivity. So much so that you can't even use Outlook worth ZoHo via AS and instead have to resort to IMAP.

The only 3rd party app I had any success with ZoHo and ActiveSync was Touchdown.


Title: Re: PGP encryption should be moved to the top of the feature list
Post by: mikeone on December 23, 2015, 04:17:36 pm
... and just two more "general" discussion threads explicitly concerning ActiveSync <> EWS started by Kostya himself:

08. September 2014
ActiveSync vs.  EWS - not so clear cut
http://www.aqua-mail.com/forum/index.php?topic=2746.msg12162#msg12162

09.01.2015
Let's discuss: push mail for Exchange
http://www.aqua-mail.com/forum/index.php?topic=3195.msg15438#msg15438

Use forum search with keywords "ActiveSync EWS " to find more...
Title: Re: PGP encryption should be moved to the top of the feature list
Post by: nadir husain on December 23, 2015, 04:27:15 pm
@mikeone thats great work by you. making the effort to provide us newer members with some historical perspective on activesync.   we love what kostya has given us...  remember one man in a room with computer equipment has developed a best in class app that  multi billion dollar companies,  heavily funded startups and the like cannot match.   so let kostya decide what he wants to do with his baby.  he is the best judge.  he has brought it this far and he will make reasoned,  well thought out decisions on what is best for this app and how best to take it forward.  if he wants suggestions and feedback,  we,  lovers of aquamail are here.  best always @kostya
Title: Re: PGP encryption should be moved to the top of the feature list
Post by: mikeone on December 23, 2015, 04:46:07 pm
@mikeone thats great work by you. making the effort to provide us newer members with some historical perspective on activesync.   we love what kostya has given us...  remember one man in a room with computer equipment has developed a best in class app that  multi billion dollar companies,  heavily funded startups and the like cannot match.   so let kostya decide what he wants to do with his baby.  he is the best judge.  he has brought it this far and he will make reasoned,  well thought out decisions on what is best for this app and how best to take it forward.  if he wants suggestions and feedback,  we,  lovers of aquamail are here.  best always @kostya
+100.000  8)

@nadir
Many many thanks for your great statement(s) here in the forum and of course also in the community "AquaMail Beta" at Google+
https://plus.google.com/communities/112921486711044378404
Title: Re: PGP encryption should be moved to the top of the feature list
Post by: crashdamage on December 23, 2015, 04:55:39 pm
Absolutely agree with Nadir Husain.  Many thanks to Mikeone for putting together all that information. 

Most definitely AquaMail is Kostya's baby and he's done an extraordinary job as a single parent so far.  I'm amazed what one guy and a keyboard has accomplished.  I've sincerely tried to support AquaMail in my own way because I truly believe in it.  Whatever he decides to do I respect and support his decision.  And I sincerely wish Kostya nothing but the best personally and professionally.

Just one last word of caution: No matter how innovative or superior a workaround using ews or whatever he may come up with, if it's not 'real' ActiveSync it won't be fully accepted by companies using Exchange.  They're just that bull-headed.

Android since v1.0. Linux since 2001
Title: Re: PGP encryption should be moved to the top of the feature list
Post by: mikeone on December 23, 2015, 05:10:26 pm
@chrashdamage
Also many thanks for your reply/replies  :)

@all
This post is one of my favorites from Kostya:

http://www.aqua-mail.com/forum/index.php?topic=2606.msg11122#msg11122
Quote
No matter what I do, even when not trying to be "inventive" or "original" (lalalala, think outside the box, yeah... blah blah blah...)

.... it's still all wrong, poor, crappy, inconvenient, ugly, shitty, uses too much battery, and causes prostate cancer.

And most importantly, still not "like this other app" ("other app" meaning any of dozens).

My middle name must be "Mr Loser".

His humor and his attitude is what we love about Kostya so much.
 :) :) 8)
Title: Re: PGP encryption should be moved to the top of the feature list
Post by: mikeone on December 23, 2015, 07:47:39 pm
Agree.

Since I "bumped-up" this thread on 17th Dec, Kostya replied in other threads, not here.

@Kostaya, are you tired in repeating your phrases of older threads? It looks like it.

Well, If you really have nothing to say we need to make up our own minds, what the
silence you are spreading is meant to be....

But, as "crasdamage" already mentioned:

It's about being polite and respectful to get involved
in communication, especially if it's not only in general, but specificially addressing you personally.
@rob
Just to give you another example of "responsiveness" and "caring about users needs" by Kostya:

22. December 2015
http://www.aqua-mail.com/forum/index.php?topic=4212.msg23158#msg23158
Quote
...
I was so surprised to see the update with that issue listed (especially so soon after the previous update), and I tested it out immediately and the problem was fixed!

Fantastic work, Kostya!  Thanks much.

In my opinion working on things like "bugfixing" is even more important (for the users) than replying as for the umpteenth time to an already repeatedly discussed topic.

And just one more point:
Quote
Well, If you really have nothing to say we need to make up our own minds, what the
silence you are spreading is meant to be....
"Silence" could also simply be attributed due to the fact of scarce time resources...
Title: Re: PGP encryption should be moved to the top of the feature list
Post by: mikeone on December 23, 2015, 08:02:48 pm
Regarding "polite and respectful to get involved in communication" I found this feedback from another happy user of AquaMail and the brilliant developer Kostya:

http://www.aqua-mail.com/forum/index.php?topic=2606.msg11126#msg11126
Quote
Out of thousands of apps available, this is one of three apps, I follow the forum and development process. Why? Because it's worth it to learn from brilliant ideas and open the mind for understanding what things make a real great app. I enjoy the personalities, humor and knowledge of such developers and how they interact with their users. So from me a big "Thank You Kostya" for all this!
Title: Re: PGP encryption should be moved to the top of the feature list
Post by: reubendevries on December 23, 2015, 10:01:55 pm
( I, for one, can't understand why K9 is limited to the obsolete OWA for Exchange connectivity -- according to their Github page, they have 100+ contributors )

This is the beauty of open source a million developers not one fucking QA tester...
Title: Re: PGP encryption should be moved to the top of the feature list
Post by: Hayling on January 13, 2016, 09:41:59 am
I have seen all the excuses of not implementing pgp and s/mime in these forums.

I would phrase the business case like this:
I recently started up a new company in the financial sector. In the sector there is a big need for encryption of private information due to security and fraudulent behaviour of some dark elements.

Aquamail  is an excellent app and appeals to most people due to a good and worked through gui and  engine

Maildroid, K9, Squeaky mail,  Outlook,  outlook.com and many other options out there is nothing in comparison to Aquamail. I have tried them all when I searched for an app that can do pgp or s/mime.  Most of them seem to be coded by coders who does not understand the need of eg syncing the sent box when on imap,  crappy gui, no proper scheduling of emails and a lot more.

Aquamail has a unique situation where you can grab a big market in both the financial services if you implement encryption no matter of what encryption you select. Also the health care sector,  government etc are in need of the encryption and most select to not do it on the phones as there are no good alternatives.

You can grab a bigger market share if you implement it in your app.  You can even replace the crappy outlook app that I used to like.
Private persons are good,  but think businesses instead. This where you market is.
And you can increase the license price due to this also.

But before you upgrade,  please use a proper pgp management app. There are many monkey pps out there that creates more issues and hassle for the users than if you use eg open keychain as the key manager. Agp is crap,  it cannot encrypt files for instance and some others are like as they gave not left the Ms Dos stage. 

You have made an excellent job with the app,  take it to the next level.
We had to pick one of the crappy apps above due to that yours didn't do pgp and s/mime.
That will most likely lead to that we will start using those apps instead and skip Aquamail no matter of how good the gui is.  Our clients means business to us and therefore we need to prioritise security for our customers more than a perfect beautiful gui.
This is a bigger risk for you than the few that select you,  ie people leaving your app if you do not listen to the need if proper functionality.

So,  I suggest you get your act together and move Aquamail to the next level and stop the excuses.
You can make Aquamail a profitable business if you just listen to the users.

I do foresee a risk that your app will disappear as you will not grow it further as people rather go for outlooks app and that app will catch up with yours.  That's what has happened over the past decades with other apps if they don't keep beating Microsoft.

The choice is yours only.
Title: Re: PGP encryption should be moved to the top of the feature list
Post by: ExplorMann on March 27, 2016, 06:49:47 am
I run a small tech company.   What people seem to lose sight of is that Google is the problem, not the solution.  Because Google reads every email (if you are using Gmail), there is no way to legally protect the contents of anything posted to Google (any Google service, not just Gmail).  That means that if you want to send details of a new patent, for example, using Gmail (without you specifically encrypting your info) the patent is not legally defensible (as it is legally now in the public domain). 

Any and all emails, as well as other forms of communications using third party SaaS services, should always be encrypted (unless you don't care about your Intellectual Property).  Too many SaaS services cheat claiming security and privacy but only use SSL/TLS (which is good, but not great) between the client and the server, but then store your private info in cleartext on their third party servers so they can easily read them (and sell the info to "advertisers").  This is the norm and the only way to protect yourself is to encrypt the actual files (anything that can/is stored that also is beyond your exclusive control).  This applies to almost all SaaS services, not just those from Google.

Note please that OAuth does not do anything to address this problem.

 
Title: Re: PGP encryption should be moved to the top of the feature list
Post by: dsamersoff on May 11, 2016, 10:18:20 pm
+1 for pgp encryption. It's the only reason I stay with maildroid for now.
Title: Re: PGP encryption should be moved to the top of the feature list
Post by: double-gee on May 19, 2017, 08:11:23 pm
I totally agree: +1.
Signed up to this forum only to express my Support for this feature.

PGP/MIME and SMIME support are a must. Please implement both. For PGP you can easily use the OpenKeychain-Integration.
Title: Re: PGP encryption should be moved to the top of the feature list
Post by: Itakfule on June 15, 2017, 03:24:56 pm
I hope that we can get Support for PGP/MIME as soon as possible, since this is from the beginning my most missed feature. Is there something planned in the near future?
Title: Re: PGP encryption should be moved to the top of the feature list
Post by: double-gee on August 13, 2017, 03:24:48 pm
*bumping up*
Title: Re: PGP encryption should be moved to the top of the feature list
Post by: Itakfule on August 15, 2017, 01:53:36 pm
To bad, but It seems that the developers have no interest in such a feature.
Title: Re: PGP encryption should be moved to the top of the feature list
Post by: Miaz on August 16, 2017, 12:51:17 pm
Hi,
I've just signed in - only to push the PGP Feature.
I really can't understand, why this feature hasn't been released up to now. Normally, AquaMail is a really good app (I have Pro), but unfortunately encryption is still missing.
In PlayStore someone from support wrote somewhere some weeks ago: "This feature will be supported in the near future", but nobody really can say how far away the "near future" is...

I'm also a little bit surprised, that the support didn't answer my really friendly mail with some qustions.
Of cause, they can't answer a 5-page-letter for every mail, but normally I would have expected a short comment...
Title: Re: PGP encryption should be moved to the top of the feature list
Post by: mikeone on August 16, 2017, 07:59:56 pm
I'm also a little bit surprised, that the support didn't answer my really friendly mail with some qustions.
Of cause, they can't answer a 5-page-letter for every mail, but normally I would have expected a short comment...
Hi Miaz, Welcome in the Forum.
I recommend to ask your questions right here in the forum:
Just open seperate threads for each of your questions in an appropriate section 8)
Regards
mikeone
Title: Re: PGP encryption should be moved to the top of the feature list
Post by: Miaz on August 17, 2017, 02:02:30 pm
Hi,
There were only some remarks/questions for Kostya, whether he has changed his opinion or not, or whether they would use OperKeychain or a different own encryption method.

Gesendet von meinem D5503 mit Tapatalk

Title: Re: PGP encryption should be moved to the top of the feature list
Post by: mikeone on August 17, 2017, 06:09:17 pm
Hi,
There were only some remarks/questions for Kostya, whether he has changed his opinion or not, or whether they would use OperKeychain or a different own encryption method.

Gesendet von meinem D5503 mit Tapatalk
I understand. Thanks for your feedback  :)
Title: Re: PGP encryption should be moved to the top of the feature list
Post by: mssm on September 11, 2017, 10:22:28 am
Is there anything new about PGP support? Is it on top of the Roadmap?
PGP signed mails are not even marked as signed and no signature is checked. Only the attachment is visible.
In the next step I would also like to add my keyset created on my desktop to Aquamail in order to sign mails when sending.
Title: Re: PGP encryption should be moved to the top of the feature list
Post by: Nedialko Kondev, MobiSystems, AquaMail Support on October 26, 2017, 10:44:37 am
Hi,

This has been considered for some time. As you can probably imagine there are so many implementations that we'd like to add and have them logged internally.

Now I cannot point when exactly this will be added but since it's a pretty valuable integration it definitely remains in our future.
Title: Re: PGP encryption should be moved to the top of the feature list
Post by: jenz on November 06, 2017, 02:36:39 am
Perhaps a futile act... But here's another hand up for encryption support.

Sounds to me like it might be time to seriously consider employing a few coders via something like Upwork or Freelancer. There are some brilliant coders available at very affordable rates.

Although, I am sure you've already considered all the many options for making the most of the chance to become a significant player in the growing corporate market for an exceptional email client thatso supports encryption.
Title: Re: PGP encryption should be moved to the top of the feature list
Post by: schworak on November 26, 2017, 08:07:29 pm
I for one would pay extra if this was an ADD-ON type of feature. Something we could buy separately.
Title: Re: PGP encryption should be moved to the top of the feature list
Post by: Miaz on March 29, 2018, 12:10:52 pm
Hi,
Are there any news regarding mail encryption in AquaMail?
It's frustrating, getting encrypted mails without having the possibility of reading. Sometimes, it takes a while to go to PC and open Thunderbird to read and answer such mails...
Title: Re: PGP encryption should be moved to the top of the feature list
Post by: Nedialko Kondev, MobiSystems, AquaMail Support on April 12, 2018, 11:14:27 am
Hi,

Aqua Mail's development and support team is small and efficient, yet we cannot get to all tasks as quickly as we'd like.

Our programmer does intend to start working on PGP encryption but, as exceptional as he is, he'll need some more time due to the fact that there are numerous other implementations and advancements currently logged for development.

Hence we would like to apologize, but cannot tell you exactly when the feature will be available.

What we can say is that once something is in our to-do-list we get it done.
Title: Re: PGP encryption should be moved to the top of the feature list
Post by: MarkMessinger on May 15, 2018, 02:04:28 am
Another thing to complicate these efforts:

"Encrypted Email Has a Major, Divisive Flaw" https://www.wired.com/story/efail-encrypted-email-flaw-pgp-smime/?mbid=synd_digg (https://www.wired.com/story/efail-encrypted-email-flaw-pgp-smime/?mbid=synd_digg)
Title: Re: PGP encryption should be moved to the top of the feature list
Post by: Miaz on May 15, 2018, 11:09:08 am
Further information:

https://lists.gnupg.org/pipermail/gnupg-users/2018-May/060334.html

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