Author Topic: Why are Yahoo Mail notifications not working? Has it ever worked?  (Read 33994 times)

StR

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Re: Why are Yahoo Mail notifications not working? Has it ever worked?
« Reply #15 on: October 04, 2016, 05:48:20 pm »
yahoo mail's android app utilizes push in mail receiving, doesn't it?

how does it do it and why can't aqua implement the same?

Because Yahoo Mail app is using its own proprietary protocol for PUSH (not publicly documented), instead of the industry standard one (called "IMAP IDLE") that is used by majority of e-mail servers. So, if they do not disclose how to use it, it is impossible to use it (short of reverse engineering which is a project in its own). I'd say that even if Yahoo published the documentation for the API, as a mail app developer I would think hard before diving into implementing that. Why would you invest time and energy in something so narrow (used only by one provider)? And given the current [dis]course of Yahoo as a business, the future of that protocol is somewhat uncertain (as is the future of the entire Yahoo Mail).


You could read what Kostya wrote about it above in this thread (you've already found the thread, great!), but I am quoting a couple of relevant posts from Kostya below in case you missed them.

You should not have any trouble at all with scheduled mail sync for Yahoo accounts in Aqua.

Now as for push -- they chose to implement it their own way, undocumented (worked out something with Apple) -- and not in the industry standard way, IMAP IDLE, supported by almost every other mail service / server. Sigh.


>> It looks like Yahoo wants to do their own thing rather than having across the board compatibility for other mail programs.... sounds similar to Apple's

It's my understanding that Yahoo worked with Apple on push mail for iPhone -- and Steve Jobs hated IMAP IDLE.

Oh, and Apple's iCloud mail uses Oracle's mail servers -- and does support IMAP IDLE.

Interesting connections...

And yet, I know it doesn't help -- so Yahoo has to implement *the* standard (when they're not too busy making it their mail system not work at all).

patrickdrd

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Re: Why are Yahoo Mail notifications not working? Has it ever worked?
« Reply #16 on: October 04, 2016, 11:44:39 pm »
so those of us that have yahoo as their basic email account should use yahoo app and only that,
and I don't think yahoo is gonna fall, so many millions have their emails in yahoo,
someone would buy it eventually

patrickdrd

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Re: Why are Yahoo Mail notifications not working? Has it ever worked?
« Reply #17 on: October 05, 2016, 10:03:21 pm »
so which push is working? does gmail work?

patrickdrd

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Re: Why are Yahoo Mail notifications not working? Has it ever worked?
« Reply #18 on: October 05, 2016, 10:13:30 pm »
thanks

StR

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Re: Why are Yahoo Mail notifications not working? Has it ever worked?
« Reply #19 on: October 05, 2016, 10:28:21 pm »
so those of us that have yahoo as their basic email account should use yahoo app and only that,
and I don't think yahoo is gonna fall, so many millions have their emails in yahoo,
someone would buy it eventually

If you have Yahoo as your e-mail provider, you have three choices:
1. Use Yahoo mail app (as you suggested), - this is the only option if you require Push notifications.
(The practice shows that very small percentage of all e-mail users REALLY need Push. And if you must have Push (which is typically required by the job-related obligations), you probably should not consider if you should use Yahoo mail for that type of messages. I am not pushing ;) you to make the switch, I am just saying.)

2. Use the app that you like for other features, and use scheduled sync which works just fine with Yahoo.
(Setting the sync frequency to 5 minutes is probably a good choice if you want to be notified about your new messages quickly.)

3. Writing to Yahoo corporate office and complaining that they don't have a standard, well-documented IMAP IDLE protocol implemented in their service.
(If you are not a paid customer, your voice probably has much lower weight. And given the corporate perturbations, I doubt it would be high on their priorities list. But it doesn't cost much to try.)

And of course, there is an obvious option of ditching Yahoo as your main mail provider. But you indicated it was not for you, hence I don't count it.

And I see that Paris Geek just answered your more recent question.

StR

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Re: Why are Yahoo Mail notifications not working? Has it ever worked?
« Reply #20 on: October 05, 2016, 10:54:57 pm »
so those of us that have yahoo as their basic email account should use yahoo app and only that,
and I don't think yahoo is gonna fall, so many millions have their emails in yahoo,

And the dinosaurs were big, there were many of them, and they lasted some 180 million years. And some 66 million years ago, who would have thought that they would go extinct?

someone would buy it eventually
Maybe... And one time Netscape was bought... and split apart, and disappeared.
Where is Netscape Navigator? Millions used it.

patrickdrd

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Re: Why are Yahoo Mail notifications not working? Has it ever worked?
« Reply #21 on: October 06, 2016, 09:03:58 am »
what about gmail then?

do you approve gmail?

patrickdrd

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Re: Why are Yahoo Mail notifications not working? Has it ever worked?
« Reply #22 on: October 06, 2016, 09:28:33 am »
yes, it's neither corporate nor confidential

patrickdrd

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Re: Why are Yahoo Mail notifications not working? Has it ever worked?
« Reply #23 on: October 06, 2016, 10:14:23 am »
I got gmail account for a long time, but I'm considering to making it my primary,
I've already began switching it in forums since yesterday

patrickdrd

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Re: Why are Yahoo Mail notifications not working? Has it ever worked?
« Reply #24 on: October 06, 2016, 03:00:45 pm »
strangely though, gmail's native account doesn't seem to have push!!!
(it requests me to have the synchronization set open in order for it to receive emails)

aquamail's push works fine of course for gmail

patrickdrd

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Re: Why are Yahoo Mail notifications not working? Has it ever worked?
« Reply #25 on: October 06, 2016, 03:59:30 pm »
it's not the same, since synchronization needs you to have mobile's synchronization open all the time,
which is not required normally,
on the contrary, yahoo's app pushes the mails, irrespectively of what you do with phone's sync options!

StR

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Re: Why are Yahoo Mail notifications not working? Has it ever worked?
« Reply #26 on: October 06, 2016, 09:13:27 pm »
it's not the same, since synchronization needs you to have mobile's synchronization open all the time,
which is not required normally,
on the contrary, yahoo's app pushes the mails, irrespectively of what you do with phone's sync options!

Oh, man!

I think it is good to challenge people especially when they give "canned" responses. But if you are calling someone out on being wrong, it behooves to do your homework first and double check your information/knowledge.

Back to the issue of Push.
First, some terminology has to be defined: Push (in particular notifications for new e-mails) mean that it is the server that initiates the contact (hence the push). This is opposite to the mail client (app) initiating the contact ("synchronization" in terms of Aquamail - either scheduled or manual) -- "Pull".
Push can be implemented via variety of methods. You are right,for the server to contact the phone, you have to have a connection (not synchronization as you wrote) open.  For that, there are two possibilities: (1) either the phone must maintain a persistent connection, or (2) the phone can have some sort of a "beacon", opening a connection every so often, and giving the server a windows of opportunities to communicate (via some other protocol), and once the server passes the message that there is new mail, the client can collect that new mail.

Several years ago, "Push" was implemented for IMAP4 protocol (standard) as an extension that is call "IMAP IDLE". It essentially requires the mail client (app) to maintain the connection open all the time.
Gmail own app does not use IMAP for connecting to Gmail server. And, correspondingly, it doesn't use IMAP IDLE for Push. Instead, it uses Google's proprietary protocol. (Google actually uses the so-called "Cloud" that is essentially a "holding" area, a buffer for different types of notifications that are awaiting to be transmitted for the apps that are "subscribed" for those notifications. As far as I understand, those notifications could be either very short notifications about new messages waiting, or maybe even the messages themselves (or their portions). I don't remember and I don't think it matters much for the present discussion.)

Gmail uses its own, specially crafted protocol for the communication between their server and their client (while also allowing other clients connecting to Gmail server via standard IMAP4 protocol, and the Gmail app (client) connecting to other IMAP servers). As a result, - they just use some optimized communication that is essentially a Push. Note, that Gmail app does not have (at least for Gmail accounts, I haven't used it for any other) the setting for the frequency of syncing.


As an aside: since Gmail uses its own, specially crafted protocol for the communication between the server and the client, - and Android is also their own creation, - they take advantage of the efficiency of this method of communication. That results in a somewhat more efficient use of battery (and possibly data) - when you compare it vs. apps that use IMAP IDLE push.
But, on another hand, I've had a few occasions when in Gmail app, the notification about the new message came about 1 day later, after the message arrived. The scheduled notification in Aquamail (even without Push enabled) arrives on average with a 5 or 7.5 minutes delay (I have different sync setting for different accounts).


PS.
BTW, while writing this post, I just quickly googled (to verify and to provide with the links that explain things in more detail), and the result could be seen at the top of the first page.
Here is "from the horse's mouth": https://developers.google.com/gmail/api/guides/push
- the API for PUSH for Gmail servers (which is implemented in Gmail app).
And there are some useful bits of information in this reddit thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/37tr55/the_official_gmail_api_finally_gets_push/


patrickdrd01

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Re: Why are Yahoo Mail notifications not working? Has it ever worked?
« Reply #27 on: October 07, 2016, 02:17:50 am »
I think that the best configuration for now is having all your emails forwarded to a yahoo account, which is pushed using their app and, as a backup in case their push fails, a check every 15 minutes in aquamail, if one chooses gmail, he could use aqua for push or check every some minutes and I can't figure out a backup solution for that, since I don't know how their app works yet, I uninstalled it right away actually

StR

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Re: Why are Yahoo Mail notifications not working? Has it ever worked?
« Reply #28 on: October 07, 2016, 04:06:30 am »
Gmail+Aquamail:
1. Push + scheduled sync (every 15-20 minutes)
or
2. Scheduled sync (every 10-15 minutes)
Both are very reliable configurations.

patrickdrd

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Re: Why are Yahoo Mail notifications not working? Has it ever worked?
« Reply #29 on: October 07, 2016, 01:11:53 pm »
the first of these options should refer to aqua and the latter on gmail I guess,
cause gmail needs you to turn synchronization on as soon as you start its app,
which is unacceptable!!!
other than that I don't know how else someone would receive mail in their app,
without synchronization on, all in all, I don't think it's a good implementation